Log in or Sign up

Excuses, Excuses, Excuses. BUT... Sometimes Excuses For A Loss Are Perfectly Valid.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Jun 16, 2015.

Page 11 of 12

lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

Joined:

Aug 27, 2011

Messages:

52,103

Likes Received:

23,328

The Shockmaster said: ↑

the margarito excuse always cracks me up...ive seen it several times

"oh the weight of all of it came crashing down...facing possible suspension...possible jail...it was too much"

haha ya right....if i still made the walk to the ring and got in their against an opponent whos trying to kill me...you best believe im going to wake up...especially after the first real punch is thrown in my direction

nazim said it days before the fight "if you say hes a killer let him be a killer on sunday morning too".....what you had was an overrated fighter with no real boxing skills get his rear end beaten by an old version of shane who was a big underdog.....i know i predicted shane to win(im far from perfect with predictions though).....i could see that one coming a mile away...i got shane at 4-1......margarito is a bum with a chin and stamina....chin and stamina are two good traits to have in this sport ....and they can earn you fans and impress people....but eventually you are going to get your stool pushed in by top level fighters.....if cotto had fought in the first match, the way he did in the 2nd, for 12 rounds he would have done the same thing and we never would have even had a rematch
Click to expand...

its always real punchers that stop guys like margarito.

shane could really dig, even a shot one.

lepinthehood, Mar 19, 2016

#151

alspacka Boxing Addict Full Member

Joined:

Dec 16, 2015

Messages:

4,989

Likes Received:

30

At what point does 'excuse' transition in 'reason'?

Often it seems if a fighter were to break their back the day before a fight people would call it an 'excuse'.

alspacka, Mar 19, 2016

#152

Reinhardt likes this.

dinovelvet Antifanboi Full Member

Joined:

Jul 21, 2012

Messages:

63,149

Likes Received:

26,617

Poor Wlad. His girlfriend had a petty dose of mickey mouse depression on the set of her multi million pound sictcon earner:crybaby:crybaby

On the other hand these clowns will tell you how mentally strong Wlad was for facing the giant undefeated Wach in the wake of his trainers death.

:roll:

dinovelvet, Mar 19, 2016

#153
alspacka Boxing Addict Full Member

Joined:

Dec 16, 2015

Messages:

4,989

Likes Received:

30

dinovelvet said: ↑

Poor Wlad. His girlfriend had a petty dose of mickey mouse depression on the set of her multi million pound sictcon earner:crybaby:crybaby

On the other hand these clowns will tell you how mentally strong Wlad was for facing the giant undefeated Wach in the wake of his trainers death.

:roll:
Click to expand...

Depression is unrelated to the amount of money you have, you ****ing simpleton.

You must be a Floyd fan right?

alspacka, Mar 19, 2016

#154

lepinthehood When I'm drinking you leave me well alone banned Full Member

Joined:

Aug 27, 2011

Messages:

52,103

Likes Received:

23,328

dinovelvet said: ↑

Poor Wlad. His girlfriend had a petty dose of mickey mouse depression on the set of her multi million pound sictcon earner:crybaby:crybaby

On the other hand these clowns will tell you how mentally strong Wlad was for facing the giant undefeated Wach in the wake of his trainers death.

:roll:
Click to expand...

deal:deal

also didnt know a cut caused by a punch could be used as an excuse.

lepinthehood, Mar 19, 2016

#155
BCS8 VIP Member

Joined:

Aug 21, 2012

Messages:

65,994

Likes Received:

86,829

Well let's see how the rematch goes. If it's a carbon copy of the first fight then Wlad needs to retire and take up a job as a potato peeler. Even I know what he needs to do.

BCS8, Mar 19, 2016

#156
alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

Joined:

Sep 10, 2013

Messages:

39,120

Likes Received:

1,802

I live by "No excuses".

alexthegreatmc, Mar 19, 2016

#157

alexthegreatmc Sound logic and reason. You're welcome! Full Member

Joined:

Sep 10, 2013

Messages:

39,120

Likes Received:

1,802

Ducklerr said: ↑

I do not think that cuts or swelling inflicted from punches falls remotely into the same category as rabbit punches, low blows, bad stoppages or DQs, headbutts, pre-existing injuries, illness, poor refereeing or judging in general, etc etc...

Yes cuts and swelling can have a massive impact on the outcome of a fight but if the injuries are legally inflicted in the ring then job well done to the man who did the damage. It's a fight.

Lennox fans absolutely can trumpet the Vitali win. IB said it best in his video. It was a hell of a war, Lennox bashed Vitali's face into a pulp legally, both men were exhausted, and you have to believe the man who could still see the right hands coming was the more likely to produce a stoppage. Same goes for Danny. You can say things may have gone differently but these are perfectly legitimate wins under perfectly legitimate conditions and are worthy of celebration bythe fans of either fighter.

Did I like the Mayweather-Ortiz ending? No, I hated it. But Ortiz was an idiot as well and it was NOT illegal.

I do not believe the Cotto headbutt was intentional in the slightest.

Cotto/Martinez is nothing to brag about. That was a case of a pre-existing injury seriously altering the course of a fight IMO.

Manny/Floyd? Not so much, Floyd was beating him before the 4th round and having watched the fight 3 times now I still can't really see where the shoulder is impacting him. His low output seems to be down to Floyd's ability to control range.

Salido fight was a disgrace.
Click to expand...

I'm with you word for word, it's kind of scary.

alexthegreatmc, Mar 19, 2016

#158
C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

Joined:

Apr 14, 2009

Messages:

46,772

Likes Received:

15,915

CST80 said: ↑

These are my opinions on the outcomes of certain matches, the losses are losses and should be counted as such. However the nature of some of these losses are controversial and should in my opinion have an asterisk next to them, some shouldn't. Some fighters have a legitimate excuse for why they lost, its still a lost but fans shouldn't have the audacity to gloat over the nature of some of these losses.

Of all of the things that irritate me the most on Boxing forums, its the immature way that many fans act when one of their fighters wins, even when the win might have extenuating circumstances.

Here are some of the best examples.
TKO6. Did Vitali lose to Lennox Lewis because of a cut sustained from a blow, yes he did. But was Vitali giving Lennox hell throughout the duration of that match, yes he was. Was he knocked out, no. Was he beaten on points, no. Was he ever dropped, no. Still its a loss no doubt but it isn't a win Lewis fans should be proud of in anyway. Especially not something one should brag about. It was a brilliant slugfest between two great Heavyweights which was decided by an unfortunate occurrence that ruined what could have been one of the greatest HW matches of all time and turned it into the subject of endless debate for over a decade.

Sergio Martinez has retired because he can barely walk without pain, he was on crutches for 9 months of the previous year leading up to the Cotto match. But of course Cotto fans say it was Cotto's immaculate ring generalship and foot work that got him into position to land the shot that put Sergio down. But it was also Sergio's pre-existing injury that took away his first line of defense, which was his ability to move very quickly on his feet. Just like Roy Jones Jr. he relied on his tremendous athleticism and stamina to be able to fight with a hands down style, using his legs to be just out of range for an opponent to land clean. Well his legs wouldn't allow him to do that anymore leaving Cotto with a sitting duck to tee of on at will. And even though he dropped Martinez 3 times in round 1 and took advantage of his immobility it still took him 9 rounds before the corner stopped it, all the while Cotto was still scared of Martinez's power, he never took any risks or tried to press the actions and get a legitimate KO. Cotto couldn't KO a shot to hell concussed cripple its a hollow victory if there ever was one.

Lucas Matthysse lost against Danny Garcia but it was because Lucas' eye swelled up after a shot from Danny and that is most likely the only reason. Everyone seems to completely overlook the fact that Lucas was dominating the first half of the match, and had it not been for that shot that swelled his eye up Danny would have in all probability lost on points or by late KO. Because even with one eye, Lucas deafened Danny and had him peeing blood. Danny won but because of an injured eye, its nothing to brag about, Garcia fans in their hearts know how lucky it was that Lucas' corner didn't have endswell. So they should stop acting like Danny schooled him, and realize Danny got lucky.

Nicholas Walters KO'd Nonito Donaire with a clubbing brutal rabbit forearm to the back of the head, the ref missed the call and should have given Nonito the time to walk it off but not rule it a KO. Shots to the back of the head are serious and illegal for a reason they can kill people and it destroys their equilibrium. Would there have been a different outcome in the match maybe not, but still for it to end the way it did leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I'm sure it does a few other fans.

David Lemieux's young rip roaring rise was put on hold because of a Rabbit Punch as well, everyone loves to go on and on about Lemieux having a glass jaw, and is easy to KO. All of that is totally ridiculous. Rubio who's a KO artist with a 76% KO ratio with 51 KO's and he hit David full force with a shot to the back of the skull right behind his left ear. That is an illegal shot and Lemieux got up and tried to fight on his equilibrium clearly off and his corner waved it off before he had a chance to clear the cobwebs which irritated him because he wanted to continue. Another KO win that should have an asterisk over it.

Manny had a legitimate shoulder injury that he was not allowed to receive a shot for before the match. Did Manny handle the situation in most upfront and honest way, no he did not. But that doesn't change the fact that the fight itself was very competitive for the first 6 rounds when Manny's arm was somewhat functional early in the match, he was occasionally getting Floyd on the ropes and unleashing a flurry here and there but for the latter part of the match his aggression slowed and his punch output dropped immensely, why because he aggravated his pre-existing shoulder injury during the match. Yet even a Manny Pacquiao with one fully functioning arm was able to take 4 to debatably 5 rounds out of Mayweather. Would the outome have been any different had Manny not injured his arm before and during the match. Its very possible. But its a loss and Manny fans should deal with that. But Floyd fans certainly shouldn't brag about it. For anyone who thinks Manny was faking the injury, you need professional help.

Zab Judah and the double nutshot brought about KO's, I'm not the biggest fan of Judah, but he really does have some serious bad luck with guys hitting him in the cojones. He stunned Cotto badly early in their fight, and Cotto repeatedly hit him low throughout the match and the KO was possibly brought about by an accumulation of damage incurred by the incessant illegal shots. Khan win was because of a low blow as well maybe he shouldn't have milked it so much and the ref wouldn't have counted him out. He was going to lose that fight anyway, but its nothing to brag about either.

Jorge Linares was winning on points in the DeMarco match up until the horrific cut opened up on the bridge of his nose he never went down, DeMarco flurried on him and the match was stopped far too early. Then the DeMarco-Molina fight was just ridiculous, DeMarco caught John off guard early I think hitting him in the nose, and he went into the ropes and bent down under a barrage for Antonio the ref could have issued a standing 8 count. Because that wasn't a legit KO, John should have taken a knee no doubt but it shouldn't be used as evidence of a weak chin.

All of the Lomachenko haters who constantly use the Salido match as ammunition in their case against the greatness of Loma, should actually be ashamed of themselves. Lomachenko came into the fight thinking he was facing a Featherweight and what he got was a Welterweight 4 weight divisions higher than he should have been. If that wasn't enough of an edge Salido with the assistance of one of the worst refs on earth Laurence Cole, hit Lomachenko in the testicles what seemed like well over 100 times, and even then Loma was able to come back and win the last half of the match and came damn close to stopping to tough as nails Salido in the last round. Its amazing any male could withstand what Loma had to withstand in that match and the same applies to the first Mares-Agbeko match as well.

On to Margarito, yes potentially being put in jail or the very least never being allowed to box again, after being caught with loaded gloves right before a fight, weighing on your mind going into a match with a big puncher like Mosley, it might effect the end result. Margarito should be ashamed of what his trainer or he was doing, that being said his head clearly wasn't in the match that night, and that is why he lost by KO, and most likely the only reason. As far as Cotto-Margarito 2, Cotto targeted his injured eye and the stoppage brought about by that damage was a legit TKO, but targeting an injury isn't the most honorable way to win a match, but a win is a win Right?

An yes the headbutt that the ref missed hurt and effected Geale, it was dirty and intentional, as if the catchweight wasn't enough of an advantage Miguel had to go all out with a headbutt left hook combo to win that match, that granted he was dominating beforehand, he won, but wouldn't it mean more if he'd beaten Margarito the second time on points without exploiting an injury and beat Geale without resorting to a perfectly place headbutt?

And no one should ever act like Mayweather-Ortiz ending is legit. Same goes for the ridiculous stoppage that some fans defended when Quillin scored an eyebrow cut TKO over Gabe, stopped far too soon.

So what do you think?
Click to expand...

'

Margarito was NEVER EVER caught with loaded gloves. At most Capetillo committed a technical offense by placing a HARMLESS used pad instead of a new one in the wrap ACCIDENTLY !!!
Have you ever seen any hard plaster blocks that were supposedly seen by Nazim Richardson??? No & neither has anyone else not the CSAC or the lab that tested the pad.
When asked to produce the loaded wraps the embarrassed CSAC rep stuttered & stammered " Err Err We don't have them any more they were MISLAID!!! How convenient huhatschatschatsch

C.J., Mar 19, 2016

#159
CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

Joined:

Nov 23, 2013

Messages:

260,318

Likes Received:

264,428

C.J. said: ↑

'

Margarito was NEVER EVER caught with loaded gloves. At most Capetillo committed a technical offense by placing a HARMLESS used pad instead of a new one in the wrap ACCIDENTLY !!!
Have you ever seen any hard plaster blocks that were supposedly seen by Nazim Richardson??? No & neither has anyone else not the CSAC or the lab that tested the pad.
When asked to produce the loaded wraps the embarrassed CSAC rep stuttered & stammered " Err Err We don't have them any more they were MISLAID!!! How convenient huhatschatschatsch
Click to expand...

Are you rabid? You are aware that I'm the other big Margarito supporter on here. Right? Calm your old ass down.:deal

CST80, Mar 19, 2016

#160
C.J. Boxings Living Legend revered & respected by all Full Member

Joined:

Apr 14, 2009

Messages:

46,772

Likes Received:

15,915

CST80 said: ↑

Are you rabid? You are aware that I'm the other big Margarito supporter on here. Right? Calm your old ass down.:deal
Click to expand...

Old ?? Who are you calling old ?? LOL I'm still kickin ass & taking numbers :bbb:bbb:good

C.J., Mar 19, 2016

#161

slender4 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

Joined:

Apr 26, 2006

Messages:

8,959

Likes Received:

2,032

Your boys lost, get over it.

slender4, Mar 20, 2016

#162
fatcity Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

Joined:

Feb 26, 2005

Messages:

17,931

Likes Received:

11

Excuses are for losers.End of story.atsch

fatcity, Mar 20, 2016

#163
adokei Well-Known Member Full Member

Joined:

Feb 28, 2016

Messages:

1,864

Likes Received:

158

CST80 said: ↑

These are my opinions on the outcomes of certain matches, the losses are losses and should be counted as such. However the nature of some of these losses are controversial and should in my opinion have an asterisk next to them, some shouldn't. Some fighters have a legitimate excuse for why they lost, its still a lost but fans shouldn't have the audacity to gloat over the nature of some of these losses.

even when the win might have extenuating circumstances. Be it by a British stoppage, a technical decision because of a cut, a TKO because of a cut, KO because of a uncalled or unseen Rabbit Punch, a TKO because of an uncalled nutshot, a win because of an illegal elbow, or headbutt, so on and so forth. All of these extenuating circumstance may hasten the outcome of a match, and what happens all of the fans of the winner run around and act like the win was completely on the up and up and like their guy did it all on his own without any lucky or illegal measures. That in my opinion is the height of intellectual dishonesty, its either that or fans are so caught up in their obsession with a fighter and his success, like somehow its their own that they willingly blind themselves to reality. Its childish and to most outside observers in some cases certifiable behavior and many fans need to take a long hard look at themselves in the mirror if they actually believe a lot of what they are saying.

Also the outcomes of manye regular people that are susceptible to injury and when a normal human being is injured they have side effects that effect their performance in day to day activities, well the same goes for a boxer since they are normal human beings.

Here are some of the best examples.
TKO6. Did Vitali lose to Lennox Lewis because of a cut sustained from a blow, yes he did. But was Vitali giving Lennox hell throughout the duration of that match, yes he was. Was he knocked out, no. Was he beaten on points, no. Was he ever dropped, no. Still its a loss no doubt but it isn't a win Lewis fans should be proud of in anyway. Especially not something one should brag about. It was a brilliant slugfest between two great Heavyweights which was decided by an unfortunate occurrence that ruined what could have been one of the greatest HW matches of all time and turned it into the subject of endless debate for over a decade.

Sergio Martinez has retired because he can barely walk without pain, he was on crutches for 9 months of the previous year leading up to the Cotto match. But of course Cotto fans say it was Cotto's immaculate ring generalship and foot work that got him into position to land the shot that put Sergio down. But it was also Sergio's pre-existing injury that took away his first line of defense, which was his ability to move very quickly on his feet. Just like Roy Jones Jr. he relied on his tremendous athleticism and stamina to be able to fight with a hands down style, using his legs to be just out of range for an opponent to land clean. Well his legs wouldn't allow him to do that anymore leaving Cotto with a sitting duck to tee of on at will. And even though he dropped Martinez 3 times in round 1 and took advantage of his immobility it still took him 9 rounds before the corner stopped it, all the while Cotto was still scared of Martinez's power, he never took any risks or tried to press the actions and get a legitimate KO. Cotto couldn't KO a shot to hell concussed cripple its a hollow victory if there ever was one.

Lucas Matthysse lost against Danny Garcia but it was because Lucas' eye swelled up after a shot from Danny and that is most likely the only reason. Everyone seems to completely overlook the fact that Lucas was dominating the first half of the match, and had it not been for that shot that swelled his eye up Danny would have in all probability lost on points or by late KO. Because even with one eye, Lucas deafened Danny and had him peeing blood. Danny won but because of an injured eye, its nothing to brag about, Garcia fans in their hearts know how lucky it was that Lucas' corner didn't have endswell. So they should stop acting like Danny schooled him, and realize Danny got lucky.

Nicholas Walters KO'd Nonito Donaire with a clubbing brutal rabbit forearm to the back of the head, the ref missed the call and should have given Nonito the time to walk it off but not rule it a KO. Shots to the back of the head are serious and illegal for a reason they can kill people and it destroys their equilibrium. Would there have been a different outcome in the match maybe not, but still for it to end the way it did leaves a bad taste in my mouth as I'm sure it does a few other fans.

David Lemieux's young rip roaring rise was put on hold because of a Rabbit Punch as well, everyone loves to go on and on about Lemieux having a glass jaw, and is easy to KO. All of that is totally ridiculous. Rubio who's a KO artist with a 76% KO ratio with 51 KO's and he hit David full force with a shot to the back of the skull right behind his left ear. That is an illegal shot and Lemieux got up and tried to fight on his equilibrium clearly off and his corner waved it off before he had a chance to clear the cobwebs which irritated him because he wanted to continue. Another KO win that should have an asterisk over it.

Manny had a legitimate shoulder injury that he was not allowed to receive a shot for before the match. Did Manny handle the situation in most upfront and honest way, no he did not. But that doesn't change the fact that the fight itself was very competitive for the first 6 rounds when Manny's arm was somewhat functional early in the match, he was occasionally getting Floyd on the ropes and unleashing a flurry here and there but for the latter part of the match his aggression slowed and his punch output dropped immensely, why because he aggravated his pre-existing shoulder injury during the match. Yet even a Manny Pacquiao with one fully functioning arm was able to take 4 to debatably 5 rounds out of Mayweather. Would the outome have been any different had Manny not injured his arm before and during the match. Its very possible. But its a loss and Manny fans should deal with that. But Floyd fans certainly shouldn't brag about it. For anyone who thinks Manny was faking the injury, you need professional help.

Zab Judah and the double nutshot brought about KO's, I'm not the biggest fan of Judah, but he really does have some serious bad luck with guys hitting him in the cojones. He stunned Cotto badly early in their fight, and Cotto repeatedly hit him low throughout the match and the KO was possibly brought about by an accumulation of damage incurred by the incessant illegal shots. Khan win was because of a low blow as well maybe he shouldn't have milked it so much and the ref wouldn't have counted him out. He was going to lose that fight anyway, but its nothing to brag about either.

Jorge Linares was winning on points in the DeMarco match up until the horrific cut opened up on the bridge of his nose he never went down, DeMarco flurried on him and the match was stopped far too early. Then the DeMarco-Molina fight was just ridiculous, DeMarco caught John off guard early I think hitting him in the nose, and he went into the ropes and bent down under a barrage for Antonio the ref could have issued a standing 8 count. Because that wasn't a legit KO, John should have taken a knee no doubt but it shouldn't be used as evidence of a weak chin.

All of the Lomachenko haters who constantly use the Salido match as ammunition in their case against the greatness of Loma, should actually be ashamed of themselves. Lomachenko came into the fight thinking he was facing a Featherweight and what he got was a Welterweight 4 weight divisions higher than he should have been. If that wasn't enough of an edge Salido with the assistance of one of the worst refs on earth Laurence Cole, hit Lomachenko in the testicles what seemed like well over 100 times, and even then Loma was able to come back and win the last half of the match and came damn close to stopping to tough as nails Salido in the last round. Its amazing any male could withstand what Loma had to withstand in that match and the same applies to the first Mares-Agbeko match as well.

On to Margarito, yes potentially being put in jail or the very least never being allowed to box again, after being caught with loaded gloves right before a fight, weighing on your mind going into a match with a big puncher like Mosley, it might effect the end result. Margarito should be ashamed of what his trainer or he was doing, that being said his head clearly wasn't in the match that night, and that is why he lost by KO, and most likely the only reason. As far as Cotto-Margarito 2, Cotto targeted his injured eye and the stoppage brought about by that damage was a legit TKO, but targeting an injury isn't the most honorable way to win a match, but a win is a win Right?

An yes the headbutt that the ref missed hurt and effected Geale, it was dirty and intentional, as if the catchweight wasn't enough of an advantage Miguel had to go all out with a headbutt left hook combo to win that match, that granted he was dominating beforehand, he won, but wouldn't it mean more if he'd beaten Margarito the second time on points without exploiting an injury and beat Geale without resorting to a perfectly place headbutt?

And no one should ever act like Mayweather-Ortiz ending is legit. Same goes for the ridiculous stoppage that some fans defended when Quillin scored an eyebrow cut TKO over Gabe, stopped far too soon.

So what do you think?
Click to expand...

I think you are merely a hater.

adokei, Mar 23, 2016

#164

(You must log in or sign up to reply here.)

Page 11 of 12