I think to compete at HW he has no choice. Either he adds 20 pounds of muscle or he stays the hell out of dodge. I don't think he'd last long either, too many fights are problematic due to size alone and whilst it wouldn't be the difference on a one off night, over a career it would be. I see him blasting through early contenders, maybe taking the title from anyone on his best night, but at some point a contender beats him because he's too big and maybe Rocky loses a comeback fight and fades onto oblivion. That's in my mind eye. Maybe he bulks up perfectly and forges a legendary career. Maybe he doesn't bulk up at all and stays at CW. But I certainly don't see a man that light fighting at HW.
Being 210 wouldn't benefit him enough. He'd be okay at 197 or 202 tops. He probably sweated himself down to 188 anyway, such was the protocol in those days. Marciano was a very legit 188 pounder.
I think he is good enough to bulk and keep most of his atg qualities. But it's a pure guess. I see I as others have done so he can do. Could be wrong. We'll never know.
There is no doubt he was small. However my theory goes like this: If you are the smaller man ( assume under 210 giving up many inches in height and reach, and at least 20 pounds in weight ) you better have the right style which is a forward aggressive type that forces the action. In addition, you'd better have top level power and a very good chin. Rocky, as small as he is fits the description of my theory, and he had the work rate and stamina to shine late. Sure Rocky can be outboxed, but I remember Lewis falling early from a short right hand from McCall and smiling to Rahman before taking a ten count. No one going undefeated with Lewis opposition. I said Rocky losses, at least, three times, or more than likely four, but so did Holyfield and many in the 1990's. It's not far-fetched to say that Rocky would not win one of the belts or even become a lineal champion, depending on the match up. Was he better than Lewis? No. Was he better than an in-shape and focused Bowe? Not likely, but he would be a more consistent fighter, capable of taking either on an off night and that includes Holyfield too. If Rocky was around in the 1990's I could see 200 pounds for Marciano. Morrison, before he hit steroids, was just a shade over 6 feet tall, and about 210 pounds. Holyfield was slightly taller than Morrison but started at 190 pounds before he " built himself up " on what many felt were thin legs. So let's not write off that Rocky could not add 10-12 pounds with similar circumstances.
I can't see Marciano managing the longevity aspect here. You could perhaps re jig the timeline to suit his attributes, but even then the wear and tear would likely get to him in the end.
Tommy was a legit 6-2. He had a reach at 77". Holy was a half inch taller, same reach. Both were of bigger frame than Marciano by quite a bit. If 200 pounds were the best weight for Marciano I am sure Mr. Goldman would have seen fit to have there on fight night.
In that case, worth noting that Marciano made 179lbs, without even cutting weight, when he was 26 years old in his 20th pro fight. Morrison only weighed less than 206 once and was above 220 well before he turned 26.
I don't see any reason to start Marciano at 15 years old, 'cause he could have started younger in his own day if he'd wanted to, but he really wasn't that interested in boxing at that age. His dream was to be a baseball player.
Well, he wasn't interested in fighting pro for 14 years either but that's what Seamus specified in the thread. If we're going to have Marciano duplicate Lewis's timeline, perhaps let's have him in the amateurs for years too.
Tommy was more like 6'1" and has a listed reach of 76". He looks pretty small in his early fights. I stood next to an identical wax figure of Holyfield in Las Vegas. I'm 6'2" tall, Holy was an inch shorter. Ali was at the same exhibit had an inch on me. Ali listed height of 6'3" tall is correct. Holy's listed height of 6'2" is *****d a bit. The tour guide said every possible measurement is made for these figurines. Their goal is for you to be able to identify them from his backside. In his time, Rocky had to go 15 rounds and fought at the best weight. He wasn't fighting much bigger fighters where extra weight was needed, nor was he only going 12 rounds. If he was in a time where opponents are much bigger and the scheduled distance was shorter, I for one think Goldman would prep him to be heavier. This is only logical Seamus. Fighters are limited by height and build type, but I see no reason why Rocky could not be 200-202 in shape. And I'm not being a fanboy here as I think Rocky would have at least three losses vs. Lewis competition, more than likely four or more.
Yes, but there's such thing as context. Louis was the only good fighter over 210 who he faced. And maintaining speed and stamina made sense for Marciano against an aging fighter like Louis. If the division had several more larger fighters in the 210 to 230 range, the context is changed and in that case getting comfortable at a higher weight may have made sense for Marciano. Holyfield's ideal fighting weight might have been 194 pounds, but in the context of the late '80s and 1990s heavyweight division it was wise to go to 210+.
Hate to say it, but he could lose 10, 15 or more fights here. And he'd struggle a lot in most of his wins. Making a career out of fighting 210-240 pounders whilst weighing only 185 yourself would be utter hell for anyone. You're asking a smallish cruiserweight to compete exclusively in the heavyweight division, and against several of the best fighters in that division. Heart and guts has it's limits.
The idea that the rock could even come close to Lewis' record is ridiculous. He's not beating Ruddock, Vitali, doubt he beats Tua who would gladly trade with him. Mercer and Holyfield would very likely beat him and Golota and Bruno are hard calls. I'd give him Grant, Morrison, McCall and Rahman and the version of Tyson that Lewis fought (but God only knows what a 37 year old Marciano would be like) Anyway l think he losses 6-8 before reaching his early 30's after that who knows it might depend how much these fights take out of him. Even if he beat guys like Tua, Morrison, Bruno and Mercer the wear and tear would likely be too much for him. Btw in case people haven't been watching boxing forever swarms don't age well. Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson were all shot by their early 30's as was Marciano himself so how you keep him winning against skilled 240+ lb fights for the next 5-6 years is a mystery to me.