Sugar Ray Robinson would have cut Greb to pieces

slowly, what it needed after the war was a star but there were none,

Even if the gates for many of the big Australian bouts of the 1920s and 1930s were quite modest by American standards at the time, many of those bouts drew large crowds. There also was quite a bit of professional boxing activity in Australia at the time. As a result, I got the impression that professional boxing "Down Under" peaked in popularity during the 1920s and 1930s.

The pre-1920 boxing period may stand out more for the following reasons:

1. Australia was more important on the world boxing stage before 1920 than it was from 1920 to the beginning of World War II.

2. Australia had more boxers who had a big impact on the world stage before 1920 than it did from 1920 to the beginning of World War II.

3. A fair number of top foreign heavyweights fought in Australia during their prime years before 1920, notably Jack Johnson, Sam Langford, Sam McVea, Tommy Burns and Joe Choynski. The world heavyweight title bout bout between Johnson and Burns drew a world record gate for that time. In addition, a number of bouts involving Johnson, Burns, Langford and McVea drew massive crowds.

4. There seemed to be a large number of foreign boxers coming to fight in Australia before 1920.

- Chuck Johnston

 

The information I have is that after the crash of the Australian market in 1914 the pound was worth or had the buying power in Australia of about 20% less than the British pound. Starting that year the British pound was worth $4.93 American. By 1916 it had dipped to $4.77. So if Snowy Baker was offering 2000 pounds in late 1916 to the best guys to fight Darcy I figured conservatively using the higher value 4.93 x2000x.8=$7888. And thats actually being generous as i used an exchange rate for two yrs earlier when the Australian pound was stronger. By comparison at the same time at a much smaller venue Gibbons was paid $10,000 to face Dillon who made $7500. So the idea that these guys were making more in Australia simply doesnt hold up. Likewise the idea that the war had caused Darcy's purses to dry up doesnt either because in 1915 there were about 15 or 16 thousand at his second fight with McGoorty roughly the same number showed up for his fight with Hardwicke in early 1916 and again for Chip in late 1916. Like I said Darcy made his largest purse to date in the second McGoorty fight. He got 1000 pounds. Even if we are generous and pretend the pound had the buying power of five American Dollars in late 1915 in Australia that means he only got $5000 as the highest purse of his career to that point. Put 15,000 fans in a venue in the USA and you have purses that would dwarf what you saw in Australia. Case in point Gibbons-McFarland which a few months earlier gave Gibbons $15,000 and McFarland $17,500. So we can state with a high degree of certainty that at least one reason Darcy fled to the USA was that he was chasing the higher purses that were always there.

 

Burt, the last fight was no where near close. They said Gene gave Harry almost as bad a beating as Harry gave Gene in the first fight. And Gene carried him in the last rd. I have endless books and articles to this effe t. Not counting K"s book. The last fight was not close.

 

M, maybe so about the last fight in 1925, when Greb was a faded one eyed fighter,with about 270 grueling fights under his belt, outweighed by many pounds to a prime LH Gene Tunney who may very well be the best lightheavyweight ever...One year or so later Greb would soon be dead...Why is it that intelligent posters as you are M, almost NEVER bring up the fact that Harry Greb ALMOST ALWAYS gave away tons of pounds in his fabulous career, and NARY a mention of this VITAL piece
of information ??? Why oh why ? A convenient omission ???.

 

Walker was far better than pretty decent. I'd argue that Robinson never beat anyone as great as Walker. This is a guy who beat welterweight champs, middleweight champs, light-heavyweight champs and drew with a heavyweight champ. Loughran beat nine Hall of Famers and was a light-heavy champ who beat three heavyweight champs, so again I'd say he was better than alright. Greb actually fought Flowers three times. He won the first and the last two were very close split decisions in Greb's final fights. Flowers and Walker would both be very tough fights for Robinson. Tunney only won two of their fights clearly and one of his wins was widely regarded as a robbery. Regardless, could Robinson have beaten Tunney? I don't think so.

Robinson lost to Fullmer more times than he beat him. He only won one of their four fights and the other was a draw. Turpin, Basilio and LaMotta all beat him at middle. Artie Levine nearly KO'd him and Robby got a long count. Graziano was never anything special and Bobo Olson wasn't great either. Robinson fought a light-heavy once, and lost. You can say he only lost because of the heat, but Maxim was in the same ring and Robinson never tangled with a light-heavy again. He famously gave his manager short shrift when he asked if he wanted to fight Marciano.

Robinson either lost or struggled with nearly every good middleweight he fought. Greb had all the attributes of those fighters who troubled Robinson. He was durable, strong and awkward, and also better and more accomplished then any middleweight Robinson beat. So yes the idea that Robinson blows him out of the water is ridiculous.

 

No. Just saying that the last fight was not close as had been stated.

 

If Greb is to have losses to Tunney and Flowers held against him, I don't see why Robinson should get a pass for Basilio or Fullmer. Tunney was bigger and better than anyone Robinson beat. Do you think Robinson would beat Tunney? Flowers was a very good fighter. A lot of people thought he beat Walker. Robinson would not be a big favourite over Flowers, especially after 300 fights and blind in one eye like Greb was.

As for Marciano, Greb did handle four men who ended up challenging Dempsey and would gladly have fought Dempsey too, whereas Robinson fighting Marciano or beating Moore, Charles or LaStarza was unthinkable. Bear in mind that Greb was no bigger than Robinson. He was actually a few inches shorter with a shorter reach, turned pro at around 140lb (Robinson at 135lb) and weighed 160lb in his final fight, just like Robinson did.

 

Greb was alleged to have lost the sight of his eye about 5 years before he died
in 1926. In a rough fight with the MUCH heavier Kid Norfolk in 1921...He thereafter entered every bout with this thought on mind...What happens if my other eye is cut or closed as happens often if you fight almost weekly ?. I will be virtually blind in front of my opponent, the audience, and the boxing commission
who will surely take away my license, depriving me of my living !
Folks on ESB, think of the courage Harry greb had to know all this anxiety and still take on top fighters, most much bigger than he was for about FIVE more years ? Add to this after about 260 or so bouts Greb was becoming shopworn
[who wouldn't] but still beat one of our greatest middleweights Mickey Walker.
Ponder all this ESB, and reflect why with 300 bouts against everyone, every color, every style, every weight, I have Greb P4P # 1....He was truly surreal...