Holmes was supposedly the champion, yet his top contender completely upstaged him by fighting the next two highest ranked fighters while Holmes defended against a bunch of fringe journeymen and a 15 fight novice. What a champion.
The Holmes of 1982 and before had too much for Dokes. The Dokes of 1983 and after didn't have enough for even an aging Holmes (probably). Dokes of 88-89 would likely beat the Holmes of the same period (but we're talking about Holmes' championship years in this thread).
1983 was more successful for Larry than Dokes or Weaver at championship level. That 15-0 rookie was a whole lot better than 7-0-1 Spinks that beat Ali. That 15-0 rookie was a whole lot better than 20-0 Tate who replaced Ali as WBA champion and 20-0 Tubbs who beat soft touch, disinterested Page who won the title by accident during a losing streak. In fact Tim as a 15-0 rookie was in better shape than he ever was again. He was unrecognisable beating Bruno and twice as sloppy. The WBC forbade Larry to fight a South African in a unification. the IBF told Larry they would sanction a unification with Coetzee, so Larry walked away under their umbrella. If you look at the Ring Magazine Coetzee was his #1 contender, so he did the right thing. Trouble is doing the right thing was not doing right by the WBC and WBA. Larry was slammed if he did and slammed if he didn't. If Larry fought Page instead of sign to fight the WBA champion he would be ducking the other champion! Witherspoon was still at 15-0 as good as anything around in that top ten. A rival champion could not be met until 1984. The WBA Rematch and mandatory demands ensured this. Rodriguez was a weak opponent but I imagine they sold that fight on the fact that he was unbeaten in 12 fights since taking Dokes the distance. It was just a "stay busy" fight taken whilst Dokes and Weaver were tied up in their rematch. Frank was taken the same month Dokes fought Coetzee in order to create interest in the winner of that fight. with Weaver,Dokes and Coetzee all tied up together Larry was really limited to who he could take. He had just beat C00ney, Cobb Snipes and Berbick who are still in the top ten so that leaves Witherspoon. if you tot it all up that's Dokes, Coetzee, Weaver who he can't fight until 1984. In December 1983 Larry wants to squeeze one more fight in before fighting Coetzee who won't fight until 1984. If you listen to the commentary of the Frank fight the Frazier fight is already announced. The WBC only wanted Larry to fight Page in order to prevent a Holmes making a Coetzee fight his priority. Page had not done enough to force the kind of fuss they made over him as #1 WBC contender. He only recently lost to Berbick. Dokes and Weaver could not beat each other in 1983. his co champion in 1983 was Dokes who never won a damn fight that year!
Thomas was clearly the best guy on the tail end of Holmes' reign and arguably his entire reign. Holmes didn't fight him, nor did he fight the other number ones in Coetzee and Dokes. If you don't understand this you obviously know nothing of the sport of boxing. End of paragraph.
I have forgotten more than you will ever know about this sport. Again Thomas was a contender and not an ATG. Holmes was the champion and is listed on every credible list as a top 10 ATG champion. Thems the facts.
Impossible, because Holmes stated he would not be defending against Page, he would never ever fight Thomas, etc, etc, etc, etc. Can't make a fight when one party refuses
Yes, fighters like Frank, Lucien, Frazier, Bonecrusher and co were much more polished and dangerous than Thomas LOLOL
You need to read what's in front of you instead of blindly going into defense (or even perceived defense) of Holmes. The worst odds Thomas could have possibly been was 8-5 underdog, and it would have been shorter. Thomas had a superb jab and it was certainly something that would have given Holmes trouble. Witherspoon took away his jab and fought very evenly with him. If Thomas was as pitiful as you make out you can rest assured he would have been front, right and centre on Holmes hitlist
Listen Jack, you know nothing of the sweet science compared to me. In fact, you never even learned how to lace a pair of gloves up. Fact is, Holmes will never even get mentioned with the greatest ever because he was scared to fight the best out there and was technically flawed and getting nailed with right hands all of the time. Done.
Your a joke N N. Holmes is rated among the best hwt champions ever. This is undeniable. Thomas is not for two main reasons. One he did not possess ATG abilities. Secondly he never was the worlds hwt champion.
here's a time line for you. This is what happened. 1982 Dokes won the title and Larry defeated the WBA#1 and WBC #1 C00ney. 1983 Dokes is forced to rematch Weaver then defend against Coetzee in his mandatory defence before 1983 is out. Larry Holmes therefore, cannot fight a WBA champion at all in 1983. 1984 what does Larry do? He signs to fight Coetzee for 13 million dollars but the fight falls through twice keeping both Coetzee and Larry out of the ring for most of the year. Larry even took a drop in purse but it still fell through. And by the way, Larry was an overwhelming favourite for that fight.
Do you know why the Coetzee fights fell through? A win there would've been really good for Holmes' legacy.
Money. The group that was promoting it simply could not raise the money, so Don King stepped in to try and promote it and even with a drop in purse it still fell through. That's how I remember it. I have found this "Holmes's signed to fight Gerrie Coetzee, the WBA Champion, on June 15, 1984 at Caesar's Palace. The fight was being promoted by JPD Inc., but it was canceled when Caesar's Palace said the promoters failed to meet the financial conditions of the contract. Holmes was promised $13 million and Coetzee was promised $8 million. Even after cutting the purses dramatically, they still couldn't come up with enough financial backing to stage the fight.[20] Don King then planned to promote the fight, but Holmes lost a lawsuit filed by Virginia attorney Richard Hirschfeld, who said he had a contract with Holmes that gave him right of first refusal on a Holmes-Coetzee bout" would it? Was Coetzee really any better than a lot of the better guys Larry beat? I dont think he was. Maybe it would have made more sense if it had taken place, but was Coetzee or any of those guys really a champion? Wasn't he really a contender in the true sense? Was Coetzee really any better than Berbick, Norton, Shavers and Witherspoon? Coetzee was not as good as Tate or Weaver we know that much.