Sugar Ray Robinson would have cut Greb to pieces

As always, it's an absolute pleasure reading your posts Burt, along with all of the other great posters here.

I could read your debates and anecdotes for hours on end.

I just wanted to ask you a quick question, off topic.

Do you think the great Harry Greb could ever have beaten Joe Louis or Rocky Marcianio?

Thanks.

:good

 

If anyone else would like to give their opinion too, that would be fantastic.

Thanks guys.

 

:good

 

That was a truly great an*logy by Burt.

 

Thank you L...To me Harry Greb at his best fighting weight of 158-60 had to be the most amazing achiever ever in boxing. No doubt. But
I for the sake of his memory hate to speculate in a thread his chances against great heavyeights beyond his era. T'aint fair I say...Just your question alone suggests his greatness, I should think ?

 

Thanks for the reply Burt, I respect your answer.

The only reason I've asked the questions, is because he was an amazing fighter and he did fight and beat HW's of the past.

Really, he had no business fighting any HW's considering his size, and it just shows you the character that he had. From reading up on him, I'm absolutely fascinated by his exploits.

Just to elaborate a little more on my questions:

I was thinking of how the great Billy Conn caused Joe Louis a lot of problems with his speed and movement, before finally being caught by the great man. So upon reading of the amazing Greb, I wondered if he could have replicated Conn's performance, even though Conn was obviously bigger than Greb. Again, like you've mentioned, it wouldn't have been a fair fight, but because Greb was such an extraordinary guy, I just thought it'd be fun to ponder.

Regarding Rocky, due to him being a small HW, with a 68" reach, I wondered if Greb's speed and volume, along with his incredible stamina, could possibly have outmanoeuvred and frustrated him without getting caught?

I agree with you, in that even pondering these questions is a testament to Greb's unique abilities.


Thanks a lot Burt.

:good

 

Again, it comes down to lack of footage. It's really hard to speculate when you see nothing of how the one putative opponent moves and fights. I don't fancy any similar or smaller sized opponent against Marciano at close quarters ... but Greb's record is pretty amazing, so who knows.

 

:good

I agree, but it's fun to speculate.

Maybe I shouldn't have asked the Louis question, but Rocky was a small guy, smaller than Tunney.

I wondered if Greb could have blitzed him with a huge volume of shots, whilst staying out of harms way to win a points decision.

 

According to an item in the February 1, 1917 edition of the Upper Murray and Mitta Herald on the Trove website, Les Darcy received a total of 9,697 pounds, 6 shillings, 1 pence from Stadiums Ltd. during a period from June 1914 to the time he left Australia to go to the United States during late 1916. The headlines of the article was "Poor Darcy, Nearly 10,000 Pounds in two years, Breadwinning at 60 Pounds a Week." Note- It appears that this item appeared in the Sydney Sun.

From June 1914 to June 1915, Darcy received 3126 pounds, 10 shillings and 0 pence from Stadiums Ltd.

From June 1915 to June 1916, Darcy received 5,526 pounds, 8 shillings and 6 pence from Stadiums Ltd.

For his last two bouts, Darcy received 944 pounds, 7 shillings and 7 pence from Stadiums Ltd.

During the last six months before leaving Australia, Darcy received the following sums from Stadiums Ltd:

March 27- Les O'Donnell- 129 pounds, 5 shillings and 0 pence
April 8- George Brown- 413 pounds, 3 shillings and 6 pence
May 10- Alex Cortica- 309 pounds, 14 shillings and 6 pence
June 3- Buck Crouse- 303 pounds, 11 shillings and 3 pence
June 27- Dave Smith- 426 pounds, 4 shillings and 9 pence
Sept. 9- Jimmy Clabby- 375 pounds, 7 shillings and 6 pence
Oct. 3- George Chip- 569 pounds, 0 shillings and 1 pence

Darcy received a total of 2,526 pounds, 6 shillings and 7 pence from Stadiums Ltd. during the last six months before leaving Australia.

Note- According to his record on the BoxRec website, Darcy fought Les O'Donnell on the 25th of March, not the 27th of March; Alex Costica on the 13th of May, not the 10th of May; and George Chip on the 30th of September, not on the 3rd of October. In addition, Darcy fought Dave Smith twice, not once, during the last six months before leaving Australia.

Darcy reportedly spent his money on the following:

1. 1,800 pounds to buy a farm for his parents.
2. To buy a motor car, which was thought to be his only other large personal expenditure.
3. Training expenses, but a "liberal estimate" was thought to be no more than 30% of his total income.

It was estimated that Darcy had a total of about 6,000 pounds when leaving Australia.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Thanks for the reply mate.

I really enjoyed reading it.

I just thought I'd ask the questions because I've not seen them asked before. (probably for good reason)

:good

 

Greg, a reasonable post on your part, no doubt. Just as I would snicker at a fantasy match between the second best fighter I ever saw Willie Pep against the WW edition of Ray Robinson ,#1 for me, I will not
address a Harry Greb fight against a Joe Louis or Rocky Marciano for reasons I previously gave...I and my dad worshiped the memory of Harry Greb who's amazing record of 300 fights against everyone, every weight, and everywhere is truly astounding...My dad as posted several posts by me ,saw Harry Greb kick the tar out of a12 pound heavier Gene Tunney in 1922, and saw along with yours truly Ray Robinson in his welterweight prime several times, always insisted
when I a young chap would ask 'pop who would have won between Harry Greb and Ray Robinson at their best"? He would reply" Greb would be too strong and too durable for Robinson, son"... He was a force of nature, Harry was. So I try to honor my favorite fighter ever Harry Greb for what he was, and not put him in fantasy matches against all-time heavyweight great and powerful punchers. Greg, what's the point ?

 

From the 1880s to 1930, there were a large number of Australian and Australian-based fighters who left Australia to go to the United States. In other words, Les Darcy was doing the same thing as many other Australian and Australian-based fighters did before him. Even with legal restrictions on professional boxing in much of the United States from the 1880s to the 1920s, a country with a relatively small population like Australia couldn't begin to match the U.S. in terms of opportunities for top professional boxers during that period of time. Such opportunities not only included to having a chance to fight in a greater quantity of bouts and for more lucrative purses, but also having a decent shot at fighting in exhibitions or perform on the stage and on the vaudeville circuit in a country which had about twenty times population as Australia from the 1880s to the 1920s.

But unlike many previous Australian fighters, Darcy illegally left Australia while World War I was taking place. A case can be made that Australian soldiers were ill-served by their leaders during the war, especially when so many Australian soldiers were killed in the Battles of Gallipoli and the Somme, both of which were massive debacles and blood baths for the British Empire. About 59,000 Australian servicemen lost their lives during the war. This was at a time when Australia had a population of about five million.

After leaving Australia and arriving in the United States, Darcy appeared be a pariah not only in the U.S., but also in Australia for a short time before he died. Yet after his premature death in the United States at the age of 21 during the early part of 1917, Darcy appeared to canonized in Australia. I myself feel that Darcy didn't do the right thing by breaking the law when leaving Australia during World War I.

It has been thought that Darcy met his premature death due to complications caused by faulty dental work done to replace teeth that he lost in a bout with Harold Hardwick, which took place more than fifteen months before Darcy's death. Ironically, Pancho Villa, the reigning world flyweight champion at the time, died from complications caused by an infected tooth shortly after his loss in a non-title bout with Jimmy McLarnin during 1925.

- Chuck Johnston