Mike Tyson vs Joe Frazier

Oh yeah he beat a past it Holmes and a drink and drug riddled ****ey... Yeah he was a great heavyweight.

 

People can call Joe Frazier "prime" in 1973 against Foreman if they want.
But his medical problems after the Ali fight were known at the time, and possibly more known now.

If a fighter spends 2 weeks in hospital after a tough training camp and 15-round fight, suffering from high blood pressure and intense fatigue with the press rumours that he's dying, and has already accumulated damage over the years, with failing eyesight and history of injury, and then takes 10 months off before facing an unknown easy challenger, then follows up with another supposedly easy contender, and waits as long as he can before taking on a real challenger ..... and is a high-energy pressure fighter who is already 29-years-old ... and has been living a celebrity lifestyle for the last two years ...... you'd have to say he's probably not quite 100%, right ?

Of course, this doesn't compare to Tyson's pre-Douglas problems, which allegedly included having too much s*ex with Japanese girls.

 

I admire the way you've argued that. :good
Not that it's a convincing argument at all, but as long as you've convinced yourself. And I truly think you have.
Fair enough. :good

 

Don't forget Tyson also crashed a car and weighed 500lb the day before the fight..., :nut

 

So which wins would you rate over that one at heavyweight, taking into consideration how easily Tyson did it as well?

It's easily a top 15 win.

 

I don't have a list.
Appropriate to this thread I'd put it about equal with Frazier-Ellis 1.

 

The irony.

Frazier had been pro for 5 years until his first loss to Foreman.

Tyson had been pro for 5 years until his loss to Douglas.

Frazier had 2 fights between his career best win and his first loss.

Tyson had 2 fights between his career best win and first loss.

There were 2 years between Fraziers career defining win and his first loss.

There were 2 years between Tysons career defining win and his first loss.

Frazier was out partying with his band and after the Ali victory was slowly losing interest.

Tyson was out partying and sleeping around and after the Spinks fight he'd been slowly losing interest.

Frazier had pretty much cleaned out his division and now a new crop of heavyweights were coming through like Foreman, Norton, Shavers, Young etc

Tyson had pretty much cleaned out his divisional and now a new crop of heavyweights were coming through like Holyfield, Bowe, Lewis, Moorer.

Tyson apparently never recovered mentally after his first loss because he never re-established himself again.

Frazier never reestablished himself either.

Tyson is 2-3 against the ATGs of his era.

Frazier is 1-4 against the ATGs of his era.

Tysons excuses aren't valid because he was in his prime.

Fraziers excuses are valid because he wasn't in his prime.

Oh and Tyson made a whole lot more money.

 

He was once married to a beautiful actress too. That's like losing both eyes and an arm.
Buster only had the flu the week of the fight ... and his mother died a week before that. He was bound to win.

 

FOTC and OAFA (Once And For All as it was called), have a lot in common.

Both fights were fought by guys who were undefeated.

Both combatants in both fights had an argument for being the genuine champ.

Both fights gathered worldwide interest.

Both fights had one guy with the belts and the other guy who's been stripped of his belt for whatever reason.

Historically, OAFA has just as much significance as FOTC.

The major difference is, one fight was competitive, the other an execution.

Infact, the only other (heavyweight) fights to reach those levels were Tyson-Holyfield and Tyson-Lewis.

 

What was Fraziers excuse?

'He was out partying with his band'.

 

No he'd just been in one of the most brutal fights of all time... :hi:

 

Corrected for you.

 

No, you've done the math wrong there.
Frazier turned pro in 1965, and lost in 1973. 8 years.
1970 he was destroying Ellis and Foster.

True.
But Frazier's career best win was a brutal damaging fight.
Tyson had not absorbed any punishment against Spinks, and was protected with far more easy fights in his early (first 18 - 20 fights or so) career than Frazier was.

It is what it is.
Frazier was damaged goods, 29 years old, more tough fights, etc.


Besides, I think Joe Bugner is more comparable to Buster Douglas than a Foreman.
Bugner fought the fight of his life in London in 1973, this was after Frazier had been destroyed by Foreman.
Bugner got off the deck to fight with skill and heart he rarely or never showed again.
Like Douglas did.
Frazier won the decision anyway.

 

You're forgetting the parts where Frazier was hospitalised after taking part in one of the most brutal heavyweight title fights of all time against the GOAT....

 

Who won the fight again....