Crazy pick time: Frazier beats Lewis!

Lewis ten out of ten.

There is no way Frazier is taken the shots VK or Tyson took, no way no how and the uppercut Lewis landed on VK will catapult Joe's head in to the cheap seats, guaranteed.

After almost every fight Frazier was in his face looked like a moon crater afterwards.......he was always there to be hit and he aint got the chin for superior fire power.

Lewis and a Tyson firing on all cylinders will do the Foreman experience real quick on Frazier.

 

Joe was completely unmarked after JQ I. His face took a beating in the FOTC, but not when he was younger. He looked fine after 11 rounds with Mathis and 15 with Bonavena in '68.

 

You'll probably disagree, but I don't think the shot old 2002 version of Tyson is in any way as good as a prime Joe Frazier.

 

Tyson's chin want as good as Frazier's. His head movement was inferior as well.

 

Lewis would axe him.

 

I find it funny that some say that Frazier had a bad chin. Frazier's style put him in the line of fire every time he stepped in the ring, and only Foreman, a much larger man kayoed him. Sure, he was knocked down by guys like Bonevena and Quarry, but he took flush shots, and got up. Even in the Quarry fight, he got up. His chin may not have been granite, but it was not bad.

 

Lewis didn't have the style to beat Frazier. I would give the earlier version of Lewis a better chance than the Steward version of Lewis.Lennox would have to get Joe out before Frazier got warmed up, but Lewis didn't really have the chin to risk going after Joe recklessly. Not a good fight for Lennox.

 

Doesn't really matter, the uppercut Lewis will be landing on Frazier will pretty much have the same effect.

 

What style beats Frazier?

L

Something Lewis was very good at.

Lewis is bigger, stronger, and has the punch to get Fraziers respect.

Lewis was only dropped twice in his whole career despite facing a multitude of known punchers.

Frazier fought one puncher and was down 5 times in one fight.

 

Um, Joe was only knocked down by Foreman, and twice in Bonavena I. Jerry Quarry never even buckled him in either of their bouts.

 

Good post :good

 

And nor was the 36 year old Lewis who fought Tyson prime either.

 

Thread...

See how much time and work that saves?

 

Foreman was pretty unique. Very few have ever had George's combination of punching power and illegally aggressive use of physical strength. (Jim Jeffries, if you want another such HW Champion, but George effortlessly outmuscled larger men than himself.)

He never took a backwards step against the roided Holyfield, and casually pushed the roided Tommy Morrison back like a rag doll. Meanwhile, Jumbo Cummings became a bodybuilder in prison, and was easily the most dedicated weight trainer in boxing during the early 1980's. Yet Jumbo wasn't able to muscle around an ancient and rusty arthritic Frazier the way Foreman did. You can also see Joe push back the arms of the strong Jerry Quarry with quick shoves at close quarters in their rematch.

Tex Cobb, Rocky Marciano and George Chuvalo were also extremely powerful physically, but they used their strength to legally stand their ground, not as the illegal offensive weapon Jeffries and Foreman did.

Manuel Ramos actually fought Frazier very intelligently, catching Joe coming in with right and left uppercuts, but to no avail. Style wise, I don't think Ramos made any mistakes, but one had to be really, really great to beat Smoke once he hit his stride. He may not have been the same after the FOTC, but nobody else was beating him aside from Ali and Foreman.

Nobody ever put Joe in a shell or stopped his hustle. Yes, he applied much greater caution and awareness in the Foreman rematch, but he also messed up George's right eye with his left hook.

Neither knockdown came when he was young or old, but in his prime. He twice lost the championship to a single punch, and got counted out against Rahman. Neither McCall or Rahman are anything resembling the ATGs Ali and Foreman are.

Lennox never got up to win like Joe did in Bonavena I, and Frazier was on his feet when he did get stopped, never getting counted out. Foreman knew before the end in Jamaica that he would literally have to kill Joe if nobody else interceded. That's a far cry from how Lennox was defeated twice by a single punch.

Regarding size and strength, let's remember that Smoke was always a HW. Holyfield came up from below 180 to battle Lennox evenly twice in back-to-back 12 rounders when he was 36 and three years older (again, albeit by cheating to put on that weight). Citing Foreman the freak is a copout frame of reference. George would have been strong enough to shove Lennox all over the ring as well, and I'd bet the mortgage on Foreman to take Lennox in a sumo type contest easily. (George didn't have the speed, defensive skill or straight punching to win a boxing match over Lennox when in his 40's, and he was too tall to get underneath, so he openly proclaimed he wasn't interested in that pairing. But Frazier in his prime was short enough, fast enough and closed quickly enough to effectively get underneath and inside on Lennox.)