Mike Tyson vs Joe Frazier

Yes, 2 different versions of Tyson.

 

Aww Sandra coming to his love child Asser's rescue, both could write their boxing knowledge on a stamp...

 

Unforgiven has done a pretty thorough job.:good I am not aware if Norton or Futch's concerns were made public at the time. Frazier was still active and I don't think Norton would want to seem disloyal to his friend by airing his concerns at the time. I do not doubt Futch's veracity. From everything I heard he was an honourable man, and a straight shooter.

In short, post fight of the century Frazier does not pass the eye test. Post FOTC he is softer and slower. Personally, I have my doubts that Frazier ever beats Foreman but obviously it would have been much closer at his peak. Interesting to note Foreman has said that he thinks Frazier would have beaten him prior to the Ali fight.

 

************
Edit: No point.

 

You "corrected" my use of the term "bum" in this thread. Not sure what else you did.

I thought the views on Frazier were unbalanced.
"slow", "chinny", "inferior in every department".

Is that a Mike Tyson quote ?

Carry on.
As you should gather now from my long and boring posts, I'm not interested at all if your delusions of "hate".
I'll never hate Tyson, however much you want me to.

I wish you all the best, anyway. :good

 

Thank you, Sangria.

 

Ahh you do realise McBride beat Tyson yeah?

The correct phrasing is that Tyson lasted 7 rounds with McBride and not the other way around that being the case.

As for being disinterested, in that particular bout Tyson looked plenty interested in the first few rounds when he was teeing off and looking for the KO but when McBride stayed upright and began fighting back Tyson first looked to foul then *****ed to the ref and finally quit.

Plenty of washed up fighters have lost to lesser fighters over boxings history but not many have quit like that against that caliber of opponent and fewer still get a pass for it that Mikey does for his total lack of ticker.

Tyson fans are as forgiving of his failures as they are sucked in by his image ie completely.

 

I appreciate both yours and Unforgiven's input.

With that being said, Foreman has been known to say some ludicrous things. He's an eccentric character to say the least. I wouldn't put too much stock in him saying that a pre-Ali Frazier would have defeated him. I also think it's difficult to subject Frazier to the "eye-test" when he fought so few rounds post Fight of the Century. As has been noted on many occasions on this thread already, Frazier was a notorious slow starter and was used to losing the early rounds. Michael Spinks was similar in that sense.

I'll be watching a lot more of Joe in the coming months, but for now I would probably concur with the idea that he was past his prime by the time he fought Foreman. All things considered.

 

Tyson was far, far past his prime in that one and only fighting for the money. That's not even debatable. Yeah, I 'forgive' him for losing.

 

you've not seen the fight, he clearly didn't give a monkeys his cardio was fcuked and he barely used his old skills.

 

Was he far, far past his prime against Douglas then?

 

no

 

If anything, Douglas was past his prime.

 

He stopped giving a ******'s when McBride didn't fall over ala Clifford Etienne in the first two rounds but to say he didn't try at all is false.

He tried to get McBride out of there early, failed and turned it up owing to lack of desire, conditioning and heart.

I'm not suggesting Tyson wasn't completely shot, he was, but his lack of willingness to go out on his shield is an indictment on his lack of heart compared to the true warriors of boxing. A more shot version of Ali lasted longer and didn't quit against a peak version of Larry Holmes despite copping a much more severe ars e whipping ditto Joe Louis vs Marciano. Enough said.

 

Tyson went out on his shield in all his losses. If I remember correctly Holyfield quit against Sherman Williams after getting cut from a butt. Did Evander lack heart compared to the true warriors of boxing?

The original point of the McBride post, if you'd like to read back that far, was that McBride would last longer than Joe Frazier would. You've completely veered off topic, but it's fine if you'd like to talk about Tyson's heart because he had plenty.