Greb and the Heavyweights- Tommy Gibbons

Exactly. Trouble is, accepting that Greb was a legit challenger (and the evidence that he was is overwhelming), means admitting that Dempsey failed to meet yet another deserving challenger. For someone whose legacy is already haunted by Harry Wills, that's a road some don't want to go down. Hence no one has even tried to explain how Greb wasn't a credible challenger but Miske, Brennan, Gibbons and Tunney were.

 

First, dont ever put words in my mouth tryimg to say i took a dig at one of my friends you cancerous ****. We both know your only saying that because doug handed you and your chemo mate greg your asses on facebook when you tried to troll me there. Second, it was perry who made the claims about my book that he did. If he didnt read it thats pretty irresponsible and we can agree like ive been saying all along he doesnt know what hes talking about, if he did he should have no problem answering my challenge. We both know he wont though because he cant.

 

Aah yes, this coming from the same paper that refused to give Gteb any credit for the win to the point that they started getting letters from the fans questioning why they were so hostile to greb. The same paper that two months later in their review of the Greb Tunney fight felt Greb didnt win. Not even Tunney or his own father agreed with that. Think they might have been biased against Greb a bit? Its funny, if one paper says they interviewed Greb and he says he doesnt want to fight Dempsey and twenty others say they interviewed him and he desperately wants to who do you believe? If 20 reporters say greb won a fight and you decide that the single reporter who said he didnt was right then who is looking for sources to support their argument? More to the point for a guy who supposedly didnt want to fight Dempsey he certainly went out of his way to fight him. When Dempsey floated a hw he wanted to fight Greb went after him. When promoters wanted to match them Greb either signed or dropped everything and headed to the site to sign only to have Dempsey drop negotiations. So forgive me if i take the word of a paper hostile to Greb that runs contrary to dozens of others.

 

I am the Greg that's on chemotherapy, have been for 14 months, Gregory Speciale's health is fing touch wood f**k you very much. The fact you feel nothing makes you an under-developed human being incapable of normal feelings for a fellow human being and you wonder why I call you out ?

What are you smoking ? I have NEVER, EVER EVER seen your ugly mug on facebook. if I do I am gonna ask Zuckerberg for my money back... obviously you hide under some alias there and I care not.... In fact I respect Doug Cavanaugh and we have argued and debated but always with respect, never name calling and CERTAINLY NOT LAUGHING AT A BLOKE WHO IS GOING TO DIE OF CANCER.... THAT"S WHAT HAPPENS WHEN YOU GET CANCER OF THE AESOPHAGUS. .. THERE IS NO CURE so go have another laugh if you really are that sick in the head.

 

LOL the article not to your liking then ????

 

Article was written by one of the most respected boxing writers of the day. He was noted for his honesty and integrity. Any handle on what honesty and integrity are all about? I did not think so. Ignore the most respected and cherry pick all the others. That's you and how your book was developed.

Dempsey worlds hwt boxing champion. 6'1. 190 pounds
Greb middleweight champion. 5'8. 165 pounds

Rated in July 1922, where you say Greb was at his zenith in popularity as a hwt , as much a mismatch as a potential bout with Lt heavyweight Carpentier. Greb is written as almost an afterthought.

 

Whose cherry picking? I posted 60+ articles. You posted one published in a paper that refused to give greb credit for beating either gibbons or even comically tunney who got one of the worst beatings in boxing history. Agenda much? Now who is cherry picking? Isnt what you are doing exactly what you accuse me of? If i post 60+ articles supporting my case and you post one who do you think real historians and even minded people will side with? If you side with the one article from a paper that was highly critical of greb, and reject all others, is that or is that not cherry picking? Its a fair question.

P.s. im still waiting for you to stand behind your argument about my book. You made a bold statement now you wont even acknowledge it. Gee, i wonder why.

 

Yeah im laughing. Thats what happens to ****ty human beings. Nobody mourns them. For three yrs youve been following me around the net making an ass of yourself and im supposed to shed a tear for you? Nope. I firmly believe that miserable worthless wastes of air like you and greg bring that **** on yourselves. Its not random, its not fatw, its not bad luck, its that you two are miserable people who wrap yourselves in negativity. All i have to do is sit back, watch, and let nature do its work. You tell me who is winning? You, who rides my coattails and posts my name every chance he gets or me who makes you look like the uneducated tool you are without even exerting myself while i sit back and laugh at your obvious misery? Im going with door #2. Every time you mention my name, or take time out of whats left of your short existence to troll me you prove me right. You should be trying to enjoy your final days. Instead you are so worked about me, so upset, so miserable that you cant help yourself. I win. And thats how you deal with trolls, bring their obsession out in the light of day, turn them to stone and see to it that all they can do is sit there and make blind pathetic fools of themselves. Sound like anyone you know Greg? Lol. Glad i could give your short life some purpose.

 

You are cherry picking articles published over many years that express a very flawed point of view.

That point of view is that Dempsey one of Boxings greatest and hardest punching heavyweight champions was afraid to fight a puny 5'8 165 pound middleweight.

Fleischer never mentions in any of his books Greb as a true heavyweight contender for Dempseys title. The article written by one of the most respected boxing writers of the time not only mentions Greb as an afterthought but give him little chance in a fight with Dempsey.

Furthermore your attack on Dempsey regarding Wills shows you will go all out to smear him. The known facts concerning a potential bout with Wills and the difficulty making it happen is spelled out in that article written 95 years ago. The same facts that are known and understood TODAY.

This is the problem when a full time salesman tries to be a writer. Very amateurish mistakes.

 

William C. Vreeland was more well known as a turf writer and his name first appeared in Brooklyn Eagle only in 1919 (writing on races), he could hardly be considered one of the most respected boxing writers of the time.

 

Wait, talk about cherry picking. You use nat fleischer as support for the idea that greb wasnt a legitimate contender (which i proved beyond all question) then criticise me for saying dempsey ducked wills, which fleischer himself said as well... But im cherry picking. Not only are you cherry picking but you are cherry picking here and there from a single writer lol.

And keep in mind two points 1. I could have posted DOZENS more articles supporting my case from all over the country. As it stands ive posted a good ten times more sources than you or dempsey1234. 2. I didnt have to illustrate that Greb was universally considered the best contender. I addressed several specific absolute points that dempsey was trying to make. Chiefly that greb wasnt considered a contender for dempsey, that nobody even talked about him fighting dempsey before he apparently got lucky and beat gibbons, that no promoter would stage it, that there was no money for it, and that greb didnt want it, and that dempsey didnt go out of his way to fight lesser opposition or try to make fights with lesser opposition. I proved all of this beyond question. Its all there in black and white and nothing you say, including sticking your fingers in your ears and going "nah, nah, nah" will change that. Did promoters try to arrange a match with the winner of Greb-Levinsky and Dempsey in 1918? Yes. Was greb willing? Yes. Did Dempsey fight the loser? Yes. Did Greb challenge the winner of Willard-Dempsey? Yes. Did Greb defeat Brennan easily four times in 1919 who was expected to get a title shot? Yes. Did Greb defeat Billy Miske in 1919? Yes. Did Greb spar with Dempsey in 1920 specifically to show the press how well he could handle Dempsey? Yes. Did he chalkenge the winner of Dempsey-Miske? Yes. Did Dempsey try to get a title defense with gunboat smith approved in several states? Yes. Did greb fight smith to prove that he should get a dempsey fight instead? Yes. Did two promotion outfits in milwuakee and one in michigan bid on a dempsey-greb fight in 1920? Yes. Did greb sign? Yes. Was an outfit in buffalo bidding as well? Yes. Did Greb agree? Yes. Did Dempsey instead fight the guy Greb beat four times easily? Yes. Did Dempsey struggle, get wobbled, and have to pull the fight out with a late ko? Yes. Did some people think greb was a better match for dempsey in 1921 than carp? Yes. Did greb take part in a title eliminator in 1922 to face dempsey? Yes. Did he win? Yes. Did he then pursue a fight with dempsey? Yes. Did he work with three seperate promotional outfits to get it made yes? Did dempsey avoid it? Yes. Were promoters still after the fight in 1923? Yes. Was Greb willing? Yes. Was Dempsey? No. Was Greb voted Dempsey's best challenger by midwestern sportswriters in 1925? Yes. Did a promoter try to sign that fight? Yes. Did Greb head to meet him to sign yes? Did Dempsey refuse Greb as an opponent the same day? Yes. Did instead float bartley madden as an opponent, who had lost in dominant fashion to both wills and greb? Yes. Those are all facts that were duly noted and absolutely undebateable. You cant deny them. Were there dissenting opinions? Sure. Arent there alway? Of course. Im sure you could find some writer to say Robinson didnt deserve a shot at LaMotta, or that Ali actually beat Frazier in the FOTC. It doesnt make it so. The prevailing opinion is what matters. The consensus, and again, i didnt even gave to prove the consensus because it was dempsey who painted himself into a corner by saying none of that ever happened. It did and thats an inconvenient truth for nuthuggers.

 

Yeah, I know, Greg ****es you off, and has done so for quite some time... but c'mon man, don't you think there's a limit to how mean you should be to a fellow human being?

 

WOW you are a complete Wayne-Kerr mate, I have never ridden on your pathetic coat-tails, I have no need to.. I am a good human being and I am living life best I can, I have many friends and a great family and a great wife. I haven't been to court for custody battles like you because you are a bad husband and not a good father... LOL.

I never wanted tears from you but I did expect some respect and not to be laughed at because of cancer but you have shown yourself as a low arrogant d*g without hope of redemption... it is only you who thinks I have made a fool of myself and a bad historian even though I have annihilated you and exposed you for many faults and now I am not alone, I am pleased to see Perry and Dempsey1234 know how useless and biased and arrogant you are so when I am gone you ain't off the hook.

I wish I did come after you to beat you up but you ain't worth that, my mate Gregory wants to beat you up too but being the great bloke he is he will not waste his time on you either.... lucky for you.

 

Thanks for that... unfortunately he is low life personified.

 

Ever heard of paragraphs before ?????? call yourself a writer yet fail at english.........