Cassius Clay-Henry Cooper 1

Well I'm a Brit can remember the fight and was rooting for 'enery but Ali's my hero, I personally put this too bed many many years ago, although I thought the added time was 5 seconds, either way it wasn't 30 seconds or 5 minutes that some have perpetuated.
I don't think the main people who cling to this myth are Brits but Ali haters of all descriptions.
By the way, in all fairness it was a helluva shot from Henry, I think a lot of heavies wouldn't have got up from that.

 

And reporters saying nothing? And nothing known about a complaint (at the time) from the other camp?

Well, I haven't. So this would be a first for me.

 

Let's not be quick to judge based on radio, counselor. Examine the all of the evidence.

How about a film? Angelo Dundee flat out said there was a delay right after he landed in the USA. This was shown on ESPN during one of their Ali marathon's. Dundee said they send someone to look for a glove, but none was found so they used the one they had.

Dundee said this with the event fresh in his mind. He could not lie. They asked Clay, and he avoided the question and said something about the airplane.

 

Smelling salts were illegal for the match. This could have been a DQ.

On film, Ali was clearly out of it. Then someone put smelling salts under his nose, and his eyes turned into pinb@lls.

It's unclear if Ali could have regained his senses in 1 minute's time without the salts.

 

aha. during which part of him getting straight up and walking back to his corner was he clearly out of it?

let me know. cheers.

 

I believe smelling salts were banned in Britain before 1963.

 

He didn't know where he was in his corner. Ali stood up and had to be shoved back down by Dundee.

How about some video?:deal

12:30 mark Knockdown

12:53 Corner man aids him to the corner with his arm! Sure, this wasn't needed

13:02, And he still doesn't know where he is says the announcer. He's correct.

13:23 Illegal smelling salts used. Check Ali's eyes!

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hwn2mqNI1I[/url]


Reply back after watching the link please. Here's your chance to say I'm wrong about this.

 

then how had he arrived there by walking to it?


Ali stood up and had to be shoved back down by Dundee.[/quote] shoved down from standing up,yeh? standing...up.

aids him to corner with that shove? or aids him to sit down with it? which one r u claiming, you cant do both.

fortunalety you've al;rady claimed he shoved him down...so there is no way you can claim he was aided to his corner with the shove, since to be shoved down, he'd need to already have arrived at the corner.

he clearly knew he was in the corner he'd walked unaided to.. try that again in a way that doesn't fail your first point.

where can u determine this, at 13.23 u cant? try without lying this time.

 

Okay, for anyone who is interested, I have just found a pdf of pages from British Medical Journal talking about the measures the British Boxing Board medical subcommittee has taken to increase safety in professional boxing.

[url]http://europepmc.org/backend/ptpmcrender.fcgi?accid=PMC2060870&blobtype=pdf[/url]


From the article, 1955:

"Stimulants. No form of stimulant, either real or imaginary, is allowed by the Board, except cold water sprinkled on the body or used as a mouth wash."


(* I suppose, "imaginary" would mean one that scientifically doesn't stimulate but is believed by the fighter and corner to be a stimulant)


Hopefully this will settle the issue. The use of stimulants was illegal in Britain in 1963, and for years before that too.
And that explains why all those people have been saying and writing exactly that. Not some "conspiracy of hate" against Ali or Dundee, just plain facts. The rules were violated. And we can see them violated on the film.

 

shoved down from standing up,yeh? standing...up. [/QUOTE]

13:02 mark, Ali gets up off his stool, and his pushed back down by his corner. By the way this footage isn't the best. There's better that focuses on Ali at a different angle.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hwn2mqNI1I[/url]

13:20, the guy to the left of the screen smoking a cigarette clearly puts smelling salts under Ali's nose. And again at 13:23. Come on!

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hwn2mqNI1I[/url]

Look--Just admit you are wrong about Ali's corner making sure he sat back down, and the illegal smelling salts, and we'll be fine.

I can respect opinions, but when the facts are there, do not act like it did not happen on video please.

 

^^^ bingo.

 

Well that would be when he sat down and suddenly got up and, apparently, had his corner not restrained him, would have walked all over the place! Good post, I agree that there was no switching of gloves and the time was just a tad over 60 seconds. Smelling salts? Maybe, I'll let others debate that. The bottom line is that Cassius (at the time) was clocked big time and was on, at least, semi-***** street. IMO he's STILL the greatest HW of all time; people needn't avoid , or make excuses, his obvious near disaster here to still realize that simple fact IMO.
Red Cobra had a point earlier; what if 'enry had clocked him mid-round with that shot? Bottom line? Clay got careless and it almost cost him his (early) legacy. In retrospect, everything turned out the way it should have, for boxing's sake. Henry really didn't belong in the ring with Ali, but did belong in the ring with a young Cassius who dodged a bullet here.
Interestingly, Cooper may have been ahead on the scorecards when Round 5 sounded. Won the 1st round pushing forward, jabbing, some left hooks that semi-landed and blooded Clay's nose. Clay won rounds 2-3 and then the 4th.
Makes me think back to the old days of boxing and how much I enjoyed it. Never understood why Henry couldn't have been a part of the Elimination tourney in 67?
I'm rambling...kudos everyone!

 

Correct, HerolGee needs to admit this.

Also, The ropes let Ali down gently. Had this happened in the middle of the ring, he crashes down harder, and might have had more damage.

If the knockdown happened in the middle of the round, Ali's in big trouble.

 

how do you know this?

 

Herol is not capable of admitting his mistakes, he will put you on Ignore instead