Top 10 HW fighters from 1905-1915

Johnson
Langford
Jeannette
McVea-very close for third
Burns
Hart
Willard
McCarty
Wills
Smith

Honourable mention Flynn, O'Brien, Jeff Clark, Moran, Coffey

 

That is more like it, looks realistic to me, maybe I would have Willard above Burns in H2H but p4p Burns is a lot better.

 

Flynn has some respectable wins during that time frame, but a very decent list.:good

 

This all good information but is there a point you are trying to make or are you just supplying information ? As for Johnson and his 30K it is probably a race thing.

 

The points I am making are.
1. Johnson was willing to fight anyone if his price ,$30,000 was met .He signed to fight Langford,Langford could not come up with the binding $5,000.He three times signed to fight Jeannette ,twice for the McMahon brothers ,the authorities vetoed both matches, and he signed to fight him in NY State only to have the fight banned because they would not allow Johnson to fight there.
He offered to fight McCarty in Canada for Tommy Burns ,Burn refused to promote it.
If you were Johnson, whom would you sooner fight, Jim Flynn in the US for $31,000 ,or Sam Langford in Australia for $15,000?:think

2.Not every logical match gets made in boxing,I've only listed a few heavweight ones.
Sanchez v Pedroza,McGuigan v Nelson, Benn V Toney ,Eubanks v Jones,Leonard v Pryor, Pryor v Duran, Duran v Arguello,Chandler v Pintor?

These are comparatively modern matchups ,that did not suffer from Government interference ,still they did not transpire.


Johnson had the complication of being in exile for much of his reign and also the governments of the US and UK [the Wells fight], banning his defences. Its a rebuttal to the premier Johnson hater Mendoza ,who never misses a chance to knock Johnson whatever thread he his posting on.

 

For openers, we are talking about 1905-1915. It's within your MO to go off tangent. While some big fights obviously never happened, Jack Johnson leads the list of top challenges avoided as champion

Johnson vs. Langford, Mcvey, Jeannette, and Smith. FOUR ducks from 1909-1914. Furthermore Johnson never bothered to avenge a draws vs. O'Brien or Battling Jim.

Cut the BS, papers listed big time offers from name promoters to meet three of these men in the ring. There's always an excuse from you. The other did meet Johnson in an exhibition match, and Smith came out the winner via TKO according to a detailed report by the NY Times.

If we are to go on fighters beaten from 1905-1915, you can make a case that Sam Langford > Jack Johnson.

 

I've provided researched proof to back my statements ,you ,as always provided jack sh*t . Smith and Johnson sparred prior to the Johnson v Ketchel fight there was no referee and no decision given, but you keep telling your lies.

I'm fully aware of the time scale of the thread, it was you who altered it by saying Johnson was dominant from 1909 until 1914 .Actually he was dominant until July1915 when Willard defeated him.
O Brien is on record as stating he could not defeat Johnson over a longer distance. This I can prove .
I can also prove that three planned title defences against Jeannette were abandoned due to government interference.
That Langford failed to come up with the binding chash for their fight.
That McIntosh withdrew his offer to Johnson once Johnson became a fugitive.
What evidence have you ever provided to back up your agenda driven claims? Answer F*ck All!


The champion drew with Jim Johnson whilst fighting with a broken arm ,why would he need to give him a return match when he had two sound arms?

Of the 19 fights Battling Jim had during the rest of Johnson's reign he won 3 ,how did he qualify for a rematch?
Now I'm tired of debating with a re**** who only wants to f*ck up threads ,go play in the traffic, and let posters who want to talk boxing in peace.

 

McVey,

You're so full of &hit you should have flush handles for ears.

You claim Johnson was out of shape ( Scales disagree ) so why would he do better in a longer fight? What matters is O'Brien according to some primary sources was the better in the 6 round scheduled match!

Johnson could have fought Jeanette or Langford in France. Just stop! In fact, the French who did not care if Johnson was a fugitive wanted to strip Jack of his title for not taking these fights!

Multiple offers for Johnson to fight Langford, Jeannette of Mcvey are out there, including from McIntosh!

You don't know when Jack broke his arm. Spectators felt it happened in the last round when he hit the floor. Jack Johnson was nearly out at the end of the fight.

Just fess up to the facts for a change.

Johnson had two dubious draws, one to a weak punching middle, the other to a journeyman, and flat out did not fight the three best out there while he is the champion.

No amount of your " attempt " to change the truth will help you,

 

Note within that article written less than one month from 1921 there is no mention whatsoever of Harry Greb. Did not make the top 20 hwts at that time.

 

Also why is it any crime that Jack Obrien rated for decades as the greatest LT hwt champion ever did well to avoid being koed in a SIX round bout with Johnson? Pit Roy Jones Jr in a six round bout with Lewis and you could easily see a similar outcome. All it proves is that in a big ring and short bout it was very difficult to catch an ATG fighter who ran like he being chased by the devil. Nothing more. Johnsons legacy as one of Boxings ATG fighters is sealed. Only revisionists with an agenda try to convince others otherwise.

 

Fascinating read, thank you! Number 11 seems to be missing from the Eastern all-time list?
This guys opinion is not to be quickly dismissed by us revisionalists.

 

That's the way it was, no 11 listed in this write-up, and, unfortunately, I wasn't able to find that eastern writer list re-printed in any other newspaper, or to figure out who that eastern writer was. A search in a couple of online archives didn't find anything in 1920.

 

Anybody think Jeff Clark might slip into the top ten? Wins over Battling Levinsky, Jim Johnson, Luther McCarty, Joe Jeannette, old Peter Maher, Sam Langford and Kid Norfolk plus a draw with Harry Wills...I think Gunboat has to give way. He started boxing regularly against heavyweights in 1910 and lost only four times in total; to McVea, Wuest(avenged) Jeannette and Langford in approx 110 fights!!!

 

Johnson did not have a draw against O Brien it was a no decision bout as I have repeatedly reminded you.
O Brien was the reigning light heavyweight champion.
We have O Brien's own quote stating he did not think he could defeat Johnson over a longer distance.
I can back up everything I've posted with proof .
Where are your sources? Where is your proof?
You would not recognize the truth if it bit you on the nose.
You are a complete stranger to it!

Now how about you give your phobic hatred of Johnson a rest and stop f*cking up every thread you post on with it?
You sad clown.

 

I cant see how Jeff Clark did enough to displace Battling Jim Johnson, to be honest. I think Johnson had the better of their series, and was generally a lot better than most people give him credit for. Who knows, he may have ended up world champion if the Johnson title match was a finish fight.