Slow Down...No Need To Rush: Long Term Legacy Should Outweigh Instant Gratification.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by CST80, Apr 21, 2016.


  1. CST80

    CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

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    The Attention Deficit Disorder Generation, or at this point everybody, is kind of ruining the prospect of any Boxer having a legacy that's even close to being worth a damn, because we all want everything now, now, now, like a bunch of children. Yet at the same time everybody always longs for the good old days, when Boxers were Gods among Men, it has to be one or the other, because the current model simply does not allow potential legends to slowly take shape and grow over the course of a decade or two anymore. Its all about the ratings, its all about getting the most bang for your buck, legacy be damned, everybody wants the best to fight the best all of the time, well that's just not feasible. After all what are the B and C level fighters to do if they aren't even valued enough to be there to test the new young lions on their way up, and expose a few along the way. How else are these said young lions suppose to get the much needed experience to help them with future far trickier opponents, and all the while when they are toppling these gatekeepers and former contenders, their legacy grows with each and every one of them, and their resumes get greatly enhanced along the way. What happened to prospects facing other prospects to separate the contenders from the pretenders, there's no time for that anymore, or maybe its just the promoters don't have enough faith in their guy to put him in there with another unproven guy that might be better than everyone thinks he is. So in this article I'm going to touch on a few scenarios that are being bandied about that I think are flat out silly and borderline egregious when it comes to the long term legacy of a lot of new fighters longing to make their potentially iconic mark on the sport.

    Okay I'll get Errol Spence out of the way first, he's fought Chris Van Heerden, Phil Lo Greco and Chris Algieri and already the hype machine is off the charts, many on this site and various internet writers are proposing that he is already fully capable of taking out Thurman, Brook, Porter and even Pacquiao, Mayweather and Canelo, who knows, maybe he can, but what's the rush? So far he has 3 decent C level fighters on his resume who would all also lose to the other top fighters in the division, and most likely by KO, and based on the wins over these 3, the fans want to see him take on the best already, and what if he isn't ready and is badly embarrassed and exposed? He'll be dropped like a rotten egg and shunned by the incredibly fickle fans who will automatically pretend like thy never liked him to start with, like the fakes they are. I have a better idea, Spence should face a few former still decent contenders, let's see him against Andre Berto, Leonard Bundu, Devon Alexander, Victor Ortiz, Robert Guerrero, Humberto Soto, Roberto Garcia, Lamont Peterson or Carlos Molina all of them are names, all of them are wily veterans, all of them will give him the experience he needs to better prepare him for the future. That brings me to his fellow contenders, there's a slew of fighters who are trying move up the proverbial ladder and make their names as well, and after they've beaten their fair share of former contenders then Spence can start facing the likes of Sammy Vasquez Jr, Egidijus Kavaliauskas, Dmitry Mikhaylenko, Jessie Vargas, Jeff Horn, Taras Shelestyuk, Felix Diaz or Konstantin Ponomarev to solidify who really is the best young gun. Then and only then after he's faced the crème de la crème of contenders and partially proven prospects does he move on to the guys like Bradley, Brook, Thurman, Porter, Garcia and maybe eventually a Lara or Canelo. Sure it may take some time, a few years to be exact, but he's 26, what's the rush? Can you imagine the kind of resume he'd boast if he fought some of those fighters, it would be quite impressive indeed, he'd be building a legacy, not looking for big money fights as quickly as possible and potentially going bust and having to go back to the beginning of the line.

    Now onto Oleksandr Usyk, slow down, no need to rush him either, he's had 9 fights and already he's being pushed to the front of the line in the hunt for a title, for what? It's way too soon for something like that, when and if he becomes Cruiserweight Champion by beating Glowacki, then people will want him to drop that belt and move up to Heavyweight, its almost a no win situation. Why is it so important for him to make a quantum leap from fighting opponents like Johnny Muller and Pedro Rodriguez right into a match with the champion who is coming off of wins against Marco Friggin Huck and Steve Cunningham. What's wrong with him facing the likes of Ovil McKenzie, Firat Arslan, Youri Kayembre Kalenga, Victor Emilio Ramirez, Tony Bellew, Beibut Shumenov, Enzo Maccarinelli, Rakhim Chakhkiev, Cunningham, Wlodarczyk to perfect his craft, not a bum in that bunch, all are tough as nails and will give him a ****load of experience. Then move him along to fellow contenders like Murat Gassiev, Micki Nielsen, Kudryashov, Briedis, Makabu, Mchunu and eventually the elites of the division, like Huck, Glowacki, Lebedev and Drozd. If Usyk could take out many of these fighters over the next couple of years, he would have one hell of a resume, approaching Cruiserweight legend status. But no everyone wants him to face Glowacki, become Champ move up to HW and probably lose to a guy whose 7 feet tall and his legacy will be ruined before he can even get it started.

    I'm already getting nauseous from the drumbeat of fans who want to see Oleksandr Gvozdyk and Artur Beterbiev face Sergey Kovalev, and what good will that do for their legacy or Kovalev's? Kovalev needs great fighters with great resumes to build his legacy, he already has two in BHop and Pascal, maybe he'll get another in future HOFer Ward. But wouldn't it be great if and when he eventually faces Oleksandr and Artur if they had badass resumes as well and a big win over either of them would actually mean something? Wow.... Gvozdyk just KTFO of Nadjib Mohammedi way better than Kovalev did, that was awesome, and guess what now everybody wants to see Kovalev-Gvozdyk, and if Gvozdyk loses...then what? Kovalev will have a win over a guy who KO'd one of his leftovers, or as many would probably call him on here an unproven hypejob or bum, even though they couldn't be more wrong in their assessment. How about this, let Gvozdyk and Beterbiev take on as many of the contenders in this scary ass division as they can, make mincemeat out of them, get more experience and build themselves into forces to be reckoned with, and then they can face Kovalev and it would actually mean something, their name would look damn good on Kovalev's resume or vice versa. Think about it, imagine how good a win over Gvozdyk and Beterbiev would look if they had wins over the likes of Shabranskyy, Barrera, Braehmer, Fonfara, Skoglund, Monaghan, Rodriguez, Alvarez, Chilemba, Mekhontsev, Browne, Kaladjic, Willaims Jr, Gonzalez or even Pascal. Then we could have a Ali, Foreman, Frazier like troika fighting it out with one another, jockeying for position a top the Light Heavyweight division, they could have trilogies with one another it would be glorious. But no everyone wants it all and now, and it will ultimately mean nothing if it plays out that way.

    And that brings me to little Naoya Inoue The Monster, put him in with Chocolatito, put him in with Chocolatito, my God the kid is 23 years old, don't you think its a little too soon for him to get in the ring with a living legend and an All Time Great Flyweight Icon in Roman Gonzalez? Can he beat him, I personally think Inoue can do it, right now, he's a beast, but when and if he does, then what? He'll have absolutely nothing left to prove whatsoever. He'll have beaten one of the greatest fighters of this generation, he actually cannot go up from there, its virtually impossible. How about this instead bring on Ioka, Cuadras, Viloria, Kono Estrada, Sor Rungvisai, Ruenroeng, Arroyo, Tete, Concepcion, Ishida, Butler, Yafai, Marquez, Segura, Villanueva, Shiming what a resume he'd have then, but if he takes out Chocolatito first, then all of these guys would seem like a step down, and the immature fans would lose interest, because by beating Gonzalez the bar will be set impossibly high, when you reach the top, there nowhere to go but down, he doesn't need to peak this early, cool it.


    As much as it might suck, as annoying as it may be, we need to chill the **** out a little, and think about the legacies these fighters can build instead of wanting it all and right now, our need for instant gratification is virtually ensuring the Boxers of today in their quest to please the fans, that they will never have a legacy like Hearns, Hagler, Duran, Leonard, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Ali, Foreman and so on an so forth.

    So what's the rush? These guys are young, and hopefully will be around for quite awhile, take it slow and steady, after all Mayweather and Pacquiao didn't become legends overnight, it took them damn near 20 years. Becoming a Legend takes time, let them achieve it at their own pace, not rush in like a fool just to please you.

    We need to be a little more patient. Then maybe you can tell your grandkids about how you witnessed the rise of the legends of our time, its a distinct possibility if only they were allowed the opportunity to accomplish it. Remember Rome wasn't built it a day, good things come to those who wait.:D
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  2. CST80

    CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

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    :verysad Chill :D
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  3. gmurphy

    gmurphy Land of the corrupt, home of the robbery! banned Full Member

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    i think its something were all guilty of tbh

    there are the fighters who get over hyped after a win and suddenly everyone wants to see them in with the best which is understandable but maybe not the best for there development

    then theres the guys who we personally think are amazing and want to see them in with the best because we know they can do it and want to then turn around and say ' there i told you so':good

    i think spence could do with the route you suggested , 2 or 3 more learning fights against some good names then in with the big boys

    usyk is different he has the gold medals and wsb behind him and is ready for all comers but i want him to become the undisputed champion before moving to heavyweight

    iv been shouting that gvodsyk has been held back for far too long and was proven right when he steam rolled mohammedi, with gvodsyks wsb experience and pedigree he could have done that on his debut. im in not rush to see him fight beterbiev,kovalev or bivol because as you said they 3 need to become great fighters in there own right for the kovalev fights to be huge. but id happily put him in against anyone else in the division

    bivol is another guy that i feel is well not being rushed but brought along very quickly. listen he has the interim title in his 7th fight and it might give him the platform to get bigger fights but the kid has leap frogged gvodsyk and to an extent beterbiev with his latest fight which is just a bit too far

    also jason quigley is now in a tough 10 rounder against james de la rosa, which is quiet a leap considering his first opponents were terrible and his last one was a full time painter. this is quiet a jump imo he could have been given better learning fights but then again this could be a great learning fight. im usually hyper critical of irish fighters and for some reason dont see them in as great a light as foreign fighters (maybe its because you know them and its hard to imagine them as world champions and greats) i know a lot think he has the good to go all the way but id like to see him build with a steady incline of opposition which he hasnt done so far, just knocking out cans then a serious challenge 10 fights in. seems the way they do things in america
     
  4. gmurphy

    gmurphy Land of the corrupt, home of the robbery! banned Full Member

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    i think a problem for me is lomachenko set such high standards for elite amateurs with wsb experience.

    some fans (for crazy reasons) say he didnt deserve to get a title shot and it made a mockery of the sport. but he beat a ranked guy in his first fight. i didnt see any fans complaining when patrick hyland got a shot against russell after only beating a series of very low level journeymen. but loma deserved the shot and if basically alll the cheating didnt go agaisnt him he would have won

    and even with the loss look how quickly he improved. he learned more in 1 fight than russell jr learned in 20+

    i see the likes of beterbiev,gvodsyk,usyk etc and think to myself, they could win a title right now and in great fashion, why wait?
     
  5. theanatolian

    theanatolian Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :deal

    I'd also add Deravyenchenko, who'd beat most of the top contenders right now.

    I agree with CST on Spence and Inoue though.
     
  6. VG_Addict

    VG_Addict Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    This generation is all about instant gratification.
     
  7. OvidsExile

    OvidsExile At a minimum, a huckleberry over your persimmon.

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    No one lowers the bar like you, CST. Neva change. If you get enough traction, you may even prevent the next Pacquiao or Mayweather.
     
  8. Nay_Sayer

    Nay_Sayer On Rick James Status banned Full Member

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    Exactly WHO do you expect to read all of that ****? How about you post the Cliff Notes version, huh?
     
  9. The Shockmaster

    The Shockmaster SOG has 4 children...he pulls out of nothing banned Full Member

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    when is a proper age to start caring about legacy? u think 34 is a good place to start?
     
  10. silencio

    silencio Well-Known Member Full Member

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    In most threads about upcoming hot 'prospects" I advise more caution. Both Gwozdyk and Usyk are top talents, but there's a danger they could be "rushed" as opposed to "brought up" quickly.

    In the case of Gwozdyk - Kovale's near his prime and is very dangerous and likely to win and even KO Gwozdyk. That could ruin him easily. I like the idea of Gwozdyk, Beterbiev and Bivol being brought up quickly, but build a credible resume and become a "draw" before fighting each other for the belts. For illustration - I think Sergej from Kovalev v Pascal 2, would quite comfortably beat and possibly KO Kovalev from the first Boone fight.

    Throw in Ward and even Stevenson and we have six fighters, who could make this probably the most exciting division in a couple of years. Both in terms of legacy and paychecks.

    Usyk - I am a bit worried that the hype might get into his head too early. For me he needs a few more fights before reaching for the belts. At this stage I would not even consider the HW, before he proves capable of clearing CW.

    Just my two cents....
     
  11. iestyn999

    iestyn999 Member Full Member

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    i do like your suggestions, its a steady pace, rather than what eddie hearn does
    for example warrington they want him fighting selby next. He should fight good live bodies first, about 3 or 4 fights then selby
     
  12. CST80

    CST80 The Hesitant Nihilist Staff Member

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    Yeah because Manny and Floyd were fighting the Barrera's, Morales', Corrales' and Castillo's of the world 5 fights into their pro careers.
     
  13. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Bivol will be fighting for the WBA interim strap next month so it's possible we could see him taking on the full champ Kovalev in 2017 if they both keep winning. I think it's less likely we'll see Gvozdyk vs Kovalev because they share the same manager and are friends. I think they'd rather go down the WBC route if possible. If Kovalev still holds all the other belts I guess they'd have to get it on with each other eventually though
     
  14. Serge

    Serge Ginger Dracula Staff Member

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    Speaking of Kovalev. He sparred Hot Rod in 2013, Hot rod helped him get ready for the Agnew fight and he helped Hot Rod get ready for Lionell Thompson

    http://i.imgur.com/fm7W7XP.jpg
     
  15. scarecrow

    scarecrow Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pacquiao fought the best flyweight in the world at 19 years old when he had no idea how to even box. He fought the best 122 pounder in the world at 22 when he was semi green. In his mid 20s he was fighting p4p ATG fighters.

    That's super fast tracking. I'm not saying that Kovalev, GGG, Spence, Crawford, Postol, Usyk, Brook, etc. need to be on track like that. It's just that when you're 33 or 30 years old and you're still a prospect then WTF is going on?

    What's the rush you say? I'd agree if they were 24 years old, but they're not.