Why has Mike Tyson become so underrated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Kid-Dinamita, May 6, 2016.


  1. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    1. Because you're needlessly throwing a lot of other examples into the mix, sarcastically too. Complicating the issue. I asked "if it's NOT an excuse why mention it?", that's all.

    2. It was your first example.
     
  2. Kid-Dinamita

    Kid-Dinamita New Member Full Member

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    Buster Douglas fought a bum in Tokyo, an overconfident underprepared bum. Douglas came in the best shape of his life with something to fight for, Tyson came in thinking he was going to win within the first 3 rounds. Tyson has himself to blame for that, however to concede this as a peak Tyson performance is ludicrous. Watch the fight and tell me that this man is anything near that of a peak Mike, he threw one punch at a time, walked forward in a straight line with zero head movement, his jab was non existent. He was just looking for that one big punch to end his misery. When all is said and done, the man is human like you and me, people often throw circumstances to the side labelling them excuses. Fact is, the boxing world isn't a fantasy land full of superheroes whereby there is no such thing as VARIABLES and CIRCUMSTANCES. In order to compile a fair assessment you MUST take into consideration these circumstances. Tyson when ready was one hell of a fighter, and he was NOT ready that night in Tokyo. Against Holyfield the man had fought 8 rounds in five years, his skills and endurance decreased immensely. He became reliant on his punch power and went into the fight looking to KO Evander early. Holyfield went into the fight at a career high weight at the time, he had suspiciously lost his hair in a dramatic fashion somewhat earlier and was ready for a war. What I'm trying to get at here is, Tyson was again underprepared but this time against an ATG fighter with a serious possibility of being on an unlevel playing field. Tyson was climbing a mountain in that fight before it even
    Happened. Legacy wise Tyson isn't ranked too highly, however H2H he's up there on podium somewhere. From a pure fighting standpoint the man was sublime in his peak
     
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  3. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    You've answered your own question.
     
  4. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    So is Tyson having life issues both in and out of the ring leading to being less ideally prepared a valid excuse? If the answer is no, then why would those other men losing to lesser fighters require any explanation weather it was because they were Old, sick, inactive, or just down right unlucky, etc ?

    I'll be more careful about the order the next time.
     
  5. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I think that he was over rated at his peak, and this resulted in a historical overcorrection, as has happened with many other fighters.

    The truth lies somewhere between.
     
  6. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What life issues? Fcuking a few lady boys isn't the worst of preparation is it?

    I suppose Douglas being badly ill a week or so before the fight and on medication doesn't matter does it?
     
  7. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    All jokes aside, what happened between you and Tyson? Did he grope your woman while blowing a kiss at you? :oops:
     
  8. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No because if he did he would end up like you, re****ed...
     
  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    :deal
     
  10. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    An ancient 23 year old, undefeated, 42-1 favorite bum :lol:

    Douglas, himself was thirty years of age, had just lost his mother and had the flu during this bout.
    Yet in his next couple of fights, he mysteriously happened to bounce back into his prime. :lol:
    This man WAS a peak Tyson.
    He didn't look good because Douglas didn't allow him to look good.
    Holyfield had just come out of retirement stemming from a life threatening heart condition.
     
  11. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Who the hell says this?? Tyson never bounced back to anything. He is a different fighter in the 90s than in the 80s.
     
  12. Kid-Dinamita

    Kid-Dinamita New Member Full Member

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    Wow, you believe age is relative to prime conditioning? He was 23years old yet heavily underprepared what difference does the age make to his conditioning?? Because Douglas was older it puts him at a disadvantage? How? He was in the prime condition of his whole career. By your logic that wasn't the best Douglas we've seen, the 27yr old who got stopped by tucker was a better version because he was younger? And the 25yr old who lost to Ferguson was even better as he was even younger?? What has age got to do with the condition these fighters were in. Also, Douglas losing his mother helped him in the fight rather than work against him. So Douglas didn't allow him to look good? Douglas magically tied an invisible rope around his neck and stopped him from moving his head? Tyson didn't move his head because he wasn't allowed to? What load of rubbish is that. Tyson didn't throw a jab, or more than a one punch combo because he wasn't allowed to? Come on now, watch the fight, how differently did Douglas approach the Tyson fight as opposed to Tucker? The same game plan was implemented, the difference was one fought a prepared fighter, the other didn't. Also Holyfields retired in 94, he didn't come out of retirement to fight Mike, he was active against Mike as he had fought three times prior to that one against bowe and another against mercer. Holyfields heart was officially stated as 100% fit and healthy in his return or he wouldn't have been able to fight on. He encountered the heart problem due to it being pushed to the limit and an overdose on medication after his fight with moorer. He wasn't born with an unhealthy heart, and did NOT fight Tyson with an unhealthy heart. You also fail to mention the suspected PED use of Holyfield in his bouts post heart problem, which puts him on an unlevel playing field.
     
  13. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    All I see is excuses.....
     
  14. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    I used to lean towards the revisionist position on Tyson, because I got interested in the sport when he was on the slide.

    Comparing him to the greats of the past has elevated his position in my estimation.

    You start to see the same sort of weaknesses in their records, and some unexpected strengths in his.
     
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm with Unforgiven here. How is having Mike in the low 10 or even right outside of it underrating him? Sure, you can have him higher, this isn't exact science, but there's fierce competition after all. If you have Louis, Ali, Holmes, Foreman, Lewis, Holy, Marciano, Johnson and Frazier ahead of him, how is that badly underrating him? Even if you'd have him above some of those guys there's not much in it one way or another. Depends very much on your criteria for starters.