Jack Dempsey's Ranking

to be fair this makes him a lesser man, not greater.



a greater champion would have the sense not to underestimate another boxer. Poor estimating is just poor planning really, and that's substandard work. Lewis ability as a champion is reduced by his weakness in underestimating someone like Rahman.

 

So sayeth you, why so much hate? Which shows bias which means nothing.

 

Rather than 'duck' can we not simply say Dempsey never 'fought' the top two outstanding contenders whilst he reigned as champ. I hate direct comparisons, but I have to point out that Holmes, who people rate in their top 5 consistently, even top 3 also failed to meet a few outstanding contenders and lost his title to a light heavyweight.

I'll budge and admit Holmes has more names on his resume, also has many more defenses, but wasn't from an era where a lot of champions would sit on their titles rather than defend regularly, also most would present a rags to riches like climb to the top

 

I am not saying that it made him greater or lesser.

I am just trying to give these events context.

 

Wherein do we normally find greatness in a heavyweight?

With very few exceptions, the case is based on either:

A. A dramatic campaign to take the title, where many of the top contenders are swept aside, usually ending in the title being taken in impressive fashion.

Or:

B. A sustained period of form over a few years, where a number of important contenders are beaten, usually while the fighter is the incumbent champion.

Dempsey’s record has both.

 

Agree. Dempsey was obviously great.

Whether his greatness then is enough to rank him above more modern greats is the question.

For me it's easier because I base on how I see fights going. Resume and achievement comparisons are much harder harder to make.

 

Seamus must be a racist black man because those are the only people I can see having so much hate for a clear ATG.

 

One way to look at Dempsey’s resume is that it is a bit like the pre title run of Sonny Liston, with the title reign of Ezzard Charles tagged onto it.

That is the best comparison that I can come up with using post war champions.

 

Well ... maybe just the "white" guys Liston and Charles fought. :roll:

 

Over the years, I've made quite a few lists of my top 10 heavyweights of all time. They have changed over time.

But the one constant is Jack Dempsey hasn't been included in any of them.

He may have been a great heavyweight, and he faced some top guys of his own, no doubt. But drawing the color line is sort of a deal breaker for me when comparing him to those who came after him.

I mean, where would people rank Tyson Fury if he announced today he would never fight Anthony Joshua or Deontay Wilder because they were black. And lets say he goes on to reign for years, but he'll only rematch with Wlad. Or a Lucas Browne.

Or let's say Wilder beats Povetkin convincingly, and Joshua beats Joseph Parker, and Fury signs to fight Povetkin and Parker instead of Wilder or Joshua (because they are black and he doesn't fight black fighters anymore).

And Fury became this hugely controversial character and, as a result, breaks all these PPV and gate records. And he only makes a handful of defenses. But he's the face of the sport.

Can you imagine trying to rate him all time?

 

At that time in history drawing the color line was expected of every white American hwt champion. It took a Canadian hwt champion to fight a black man for the hwt title. That black man was Jack Johnson. A white hwt champion did not fight a black again until 1937.

Dempsey actively pursued fighting Wills but could not overcome the boxing culture which was the American culture of that time which absolutely did not want any black fighting for the hwt title.

 

People should stop reading articles and study history. At that time commissions, state and city governments and other officials were dead set against a black man fighting for the HW title. The reason they almost all refer to is the aftermath of the Jeffries- Johnson fight. This is well documented, but I guess it's easier to say Dempsey ducked, was afraid, to fight Wills which is nonsense.