Jack Dempsey's Ranking

The color line was far more than just to prevent race riots. The hwt champion of the world indicates you are the physical master of ALL men white or black. A idea of a black hwt champion gave North American whites the jitters at many levels.

 

We have found a point of profound agreement.

 

I think you will find that race riots and fatalities occurred,[Johnson v Jeffries,] when it was the black fighter who was victorious.:think

 

Hmmm, I think we can safely say that Murica leads the way in the West as far as both paranoia and self ****ysis is concerned. Besides which fighters in Britain have never been, and never will be as revered as they are in the US. Pugilism is still considered to be something of an embarrassment engaged in by the least educated as far as the establishment is concerned.

Suffice to say if Lennox Lewis had point blank refused to fight white guys a couple of British tabloids would have had something to say about it for a day, or perhaps two at the most before moving back to their tried and tested Islamophobia stance.

 

Y'all are leaving out the spices that made it hotter, Jack Johnson and the whiteman's ego.

 

No offense but this is slightly moronic.

Of course there was a possibly that Dempsey would lose, otherwise what would be the point of even making the fight?

I'm making this up, but Let's say the odds would have 65-35% for a Dempsey victory, that's still means there was a significant chance the Wills would have won. To my knowledge nobody is arguing that Wills wasn't a worthy opponent and could potentially have won, the discuss is that if he were to win, what would have been the repercussions of a win on society as a whole.

Considering the fall out from the Johnston - Jeffries fight, there was every reason to believe innocent people, perhaps with absolutely no interest in boxing at all, may have been killed. It's sad to think that this may have been the result, but it was only a decade earlier. So regardless of what you think was morally right or wrong, you have some obligation to argue your point in the context of the times. But just to add to that, the argument, I just put forth, doesn't exclude that there was also a high degree of prejudice involved as well, but both factors need to integrated into the discussion because they are inter-connected. Also a factor was the economics of the fight, would it have generated enough $$$ to compensate Dempsey based on his market value, and were he to lose to a black fighter, how would that impact his market value, these are all valid points to consider.

 

A very fair and balanced assessment.

It is possible that Muldoon was simply trying to protect the public from violent disorder, when he blocked the fight from being sanctioned in New York State.

It is possible that Rickard remembered the fallout form Johnson Jeffries, which he had personally promoted, and didn’t want to risk the same thing happening again.

It is possible that Dempsey simply did as Rickard told him.

Then again it is also possible that they acted from less noble motives.

 

Exactly. So they didn't hold the fight because they felt they black fighter (Wills) would win.

So Dempsey ducked his number-one contender for eight years because WILLS MIGHT WIN.

If they believed Dempsey would win, they would've fought Wills.

Bottom line.

Color line = Duck:deal

 

All of these moves just ACKNOWLEDGE that most felt it was very likely Harry Wills would beat Dempsey.

If people felt Dempsey would suffer the same fate as Jeffries, and Wills was comparable to Johnson, that just shows they had no faith in Dempsey actually winning.

You don't duck a fighter for seven years if you're sure you can beat him.

There were racists when Jeffries, Burns and Willard fought Johnson. There were racists when Sharkey fought Wills. There were racists when Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera, Baer and Braddock fought Louis. But those men all stepped up to the plate because they felt they could win.

Dempsey was the only one who didn't fight Wills because of what "some racists might do if Wills won."

If he (or his team) was actually confident in winning, that line of thought wouldn't even come up.

Jeffries, Burns, Willard, Sharkey, Schmeling, Carnera, Baer and Braddock didn't fear what would happen if they lost.

Avoiding Wills was a cowardly act. Trying to excuse his cowardice by pointing to racists who MIGHT riot if Dempsey lost just shows how little faith they had in their own fighter actually beating Wills.

 

So,so typical of Dempsey haters you are..You bring up the above points of Vander who STATES clearly that William Muldoon, NY State Boxing Commisioner was "possibly trying to protect the public from violent riots and deaths that followed the Jeffries/Johnson fight a decade before". But you conveniently left out V's point,to bolster your
abhorrent hatred of Dempsey...Good try D, but no cigar...

 

Sorry I believe Janitor brought up the valid point of William Muldoon "trying to protect the public "fearful of a repercussion of riots that followed the 1910 deaths in Reno...

 

Moronic?

Everyone knows there was racism at the turn of the 20th century in the U.S. But Demspey was the one champion who refused to fight the top black fighter of his era because of what would happen if he lost.

And anyone who thinks it was "nice" of Dempsey not to fight Wills because Dempsey was looking out for all those poor black people who might get killed if Wills became the heavyweight champion ... you're not only high, but that's the biggest, most moronic insult of all.

So the argument is we can't let the talented, black, number-one contender for seven years fight for the title, because he might win!!! And that would be bad for blacks in the U.S.?

That's the argument you guys are sticking to?

When those banks all shut down after the Dempsey-Gibbons fight, and all those people (white and black) lost their life savings in those banks, and businesses were ruined, and families lives were destroyed ... how many people committed violent crimes as a result? How many people, when they lost everything, committed suicide? How many beat their wives? How many committed robberies or stole or shot someone because they lost everything?

Did Dempsey feel bad for all the depositers who lost everything? Or did he just take the money and bankroll another movie for his wife?

How about Dempsey just didn't fight Wills because there was a good chance Wills would win, so he decided to fight some overmatched light heavys and some unskilled Argentinian instead while he tried to get his Hollywood career off the ground?

Yeah. I think second reason is more closely based in reality than Dempsey being the guy trying to "save" all blacks from those "racist whites."