How much would Liston, Shavers, Lyle, and Norton add to Joe Frazier's resume?

actually He was in his prime in the era of John L Sullivan f***** idiot

 

Sullivan may be an idiot but theres no need 4 calling him that.

and no u need to study your boxing history u FLOP mate.

 

Not much to be honest.

Liston was more of a name fighter back then and I sure don't see an old fighter like that dealing w/ prime Smokin Joe.

Norton is made to order and has such a minimal shot at a victory. Especially if even considering putting him in immediately after Foreman destroyed him. Kenny was not facing live bodies for quite awhile after that.

Shavers gained his name recognition later on but during that timeframe wasn't much of a threat. Stander got the call for beating him.

Lyle may or may not have had much of a chance. I could see a tough back and forth fight or a 1 way Frazier domination.

Posting victories over names works for people who look for name recognition. The problem is a guy's form at the time. And the guy with probably the best form was Lyle when he was winning decisions against the likes of Bonavena and Ellis. But he was no spring chicken and Joe Frazier is a different kettle of fish than those guys at the time.

Joe sure doesn't seem to get much love for Bugner, does he? That guy gives problems to a young Shavers or 74 Lyle and especially Norton in that timeframe.

 

A very clear boost for me.

It could then be claimed he cleaned out an era and beat every style going.

That probably guarantees him a top ten on any list and answers questions that his unfortunate losses to Foreman have asked.

 

I am going to say very little.

The way those fights would have happened; he would be picking them off while they were still inexperienced, and not fully established as contenders.

People would look at this, and draw the appropriate conclusions.

 

A Liston win around that period would do very little in a revisionist sense. He was done by then really. Lyle, meh.. Shavers, Meh.. The only one imo that would add much of anything is Norton

 

Exactly so.

 

No way Frazier beats Liston but he drives right through Norton and Shavers brutally.

 

Are you kidding? Those names would be huge on his resume, especially Liston.

 

Well at the very best, they would mean less than the people he fought instead.

It wasnt is job to seek out dangerous opponents, who were less qualified than the top contenders.

There is a good reason why he fought the people he did.

 

There is no record of Liston's birth. His family, but not Sonny Liston, can be found in the 1930 census, and in the 1940 census he was listed as 10 years old. It has been suggested Liston may not have known what year he was born, as he was not precise on the matter. He finally settled on a date of birth of May 8, 1932 for official purposes but by the time he won the world title an aged appearance added credence to rumors that he was actually several years older



It would appear no one actually knows how old he was. He could well have been nearer 40 than 30 when he lost to Ali in 1964.

 

Let's think about this logically. When was Liston prime? I comfortably say the Floyd Patterson fights and by extension the Ali fights. No way does a past prime fighter knock out Patterson 2 times in a row. Patterson went on to decision Chuvalo, Machen, draw with Quarry, and knockout Cooper as well as go on to have more great victories.

Back to Liston, lets say that Liston was at the end of his prime when he fought Ali. Most fighter's primes end at roughly 29-30 years old. Obviously Liston had a late/longer prime and was just a great fighter. He is officially 30-33 for the Patterson/Ali fights.

I think it is fair to say that Liston was no older that 33.

 

Looking at it logically. Patterson was knocked down 20 times in his career ( I don't know how many times there were prior to Liston ) so it is not beyond the realms of probability that the bigger, stronger, harder punching Liston would do the same, no matter how old he was.

The fact is NO ONE knew for sure exactly how old Sonny was including Liston himself. That is the only criteria one can apply.

 

Let's be reasonable. There is no way in hell that Liston was older than 34/35 in the Ali fights. Just no way. It isn't unheard of for people to look older than they are. Especially when you live the life that Liston was. He developed early and was 6 foot 200 pounds of mean at 18. Also Liston had great longevity. He was very consistent throughout his entire career and beats Frazier anytime in his career.