How much would Liston, Shavers, Lyle, and Norton add to Joe Frazier's resume?

So Liston's best was KO'ing a 180 lbs journeyman in six rds?

No, if you're half way honest you'd say he was at his best when he recorded his best wins, and did so in the most dominant fashion he beat any top fighter in. I e when he beat Patterson.

 

Next thread - Joe Frazier vs Corrie Sanders.

 

I fully understand what your point was, and I am more than capable of doing the maths thank's. But for the 2nd time.

1. Wasn't he one of many kids all called Charles?

2. Is there any reason to believe his family had more literacy than he did?

You simply can not say categorically Liston was 34 when he fought Ali. It is pure conjecture, as he didn't even know himself.

 

What you can say is that he was better when he crushed Patterson like a paper cup twice than he was when he was first beaten by 180 lbs journeyman Marshall and then needed 6 rds to stop him in the rematch. No matter what his age was at the time.

 

so you consider foreman simply "a puncher"

 

Where did I say that? Since you ask ,did he need to exhibit anything else against Frazier? Further to that Frazier had to defend against Foreman, he was the number one contender and Frazier had not defended against a ranked defender for 2 years. Bottom line Frazier faced ONE top level puncher who used him as a yoyo. So if he had fought,and beaten decent versions of Lyle,Shavers, and a still powerful Liston,it would have added a lot to his future standing ,imo.

 

That is your opinion, and you are more than entitled to it. Mine is he did well to see the fight with Marshall out seeing as he sustained a broken jaw in the 4th and still only lost a split decision.

However that still doesn't shed any light on his age at the time of any of his fights.

 

It's the only sane conclusion to draw.:good
His Mother said he was a couple of years older than he claimed, he and his siblings had 2 Mother's between them, on one side he was related to blues guitarist BB King which as a musician would interest you Foxy .

I don't think we will ever know the truth, it's not like he could read his birth certificate ,even supposing he had one.

 

the point is that his fight with foreman did not prove that he would have problems with any puncher because foreman was a brutal one, and yes i agree that facing lyle,shavers or even liston would increment his credibility against punchers

 

Who on this list beats Liston?

 

No better or worse than Frazier's alleged best ( between 67 - 70 ) when he was knocking over or out such luminaries as

Davis
Johnson
Doyle
Connor
Ramos and
Zyglewicz.

 

depend of the stage of his career, i pick lyle ,frazier and maybe shavers(with the correct punch) to knock him out

 

No, but it does shed light on when he was at his best. The early 60's - when he had his most dominant wins over his best opponent. And the late 60's Liston was still a dangerous fighter. If he was in his mid 30's or his mid 40's at that point doesn't matter - he was still good and his record shows it.

 

You forget to mention that Frazier also defeated Chuvalo, Mathis, Quarry, Bonavena and Ellis during these years. Which top contenders did Liston beat in the mid 50's?

 

It didn't prove he had problems with punchers, but it strongly indicated it! If he faced and defeated those named it would prove he didn't!