Jack Dempsey's Ranking

Is it easier to make your fortune when it is dropped off at your doorstep or by trying to move units through tantalizing fictions?

You folks are underselling the revolutionary that was Tex Rickard...

from a wonderful article about Rickard in the Journal of Macromarketing...

"Rickard was so concerned with how newspaper reporters portrayed his events and ventures that he went beyond strong-arming and developed a slush fund to pay certain report-ers. Specifically, Rickard and other Garden staff had specific sportswriters on payrolls for as much as $4,000 (Kidd (1996). Newspaper publishers barely raised a brow because they were happy someone else was paying their reporters. These reporters were also happy to be invited to these special events with pre-ferred seats near the affluent. "

 

:roll:

Sometimes I wish, after the Jeffries fight, that Jack Johnson just sailed to Europe and announced:

"I have decided that I will no longer defend the world heavyweight title against any white, U.S. challengers. The United States is a relatively young country and in its 150 years the white men running it have proven their barbarism. The rest of the civilized world doesn't understand their hatred for black men and, as the grandchild of men and women who were enslaved by those men, I can't continue to put money in their pockets. Therefore, I am drawing the color line when it comes to white, U.S. fighters. I will no longer defend my title against them or in the U.S."

And then all the men who challenged Johnson after that, who were either black or European, would've agreed and followed suit. Because they didn't get the white-black situation in the U.S., either.

So, as a result of that white racism in the U.S., we would've missed out on the nothing-much reign of Jess Willard and the largely one-sided, overhyped and not very competitive reign of Dempsey.

Instead, the world heavyweight champions would've been Johnson, maybe Langford, Jeannette, Wills, Uzcudan, Schmeling, Gains ... maybe Carnera.

Or, maybe 15 or 16 years after the color line is drawn following Johnson-Jeffries, the old champ Wills decides that maybe white Americans have calmed the hell down enough to accept a white guy losing to a black guy, so he decides to defend against someone like Sharkey ... and Sharkey wins. And maybe an old Dempsey finally gets a shot at Sharkey and wins on a foul, and then loses to Tunney in his first defense.

A one-defense Dempsey - like Baer and Sharkey were -- is probably more realistic to how good Dempsey really was anyway.

Or maybe Wills says "to hell with them" ... and Jack Dempsey never gets a shot, because he never beat any top heavyweights in the 1920s anyway. And Dempsey writes later that he doesn't hold it against the black and European world heavyweight champs, because white Americans were kinda crazy back then.

And maybe Larry Gains - who made a fortune defending the world heavyweight title in England, France and Germany - pays for Dempsey's funeral, because Dempsey never made much since he was shut out of a title shot because of the racism of his country and followers. Maybe Shelby, Montana, is a thriving major city.

That's probably the alternate reality we should've seen.

It makes more sense than banning black fighters from fighting for the title because WHITE Americans got angry when their guy lost.

The world should've told the white Americans "they" weren't allowed to participate if they couldn't hold it together.

Too bad they didn't. And it's too bad Jack Johnson took so much pleasure beating white fighters that he didn't.

 

I think Johnson took most pleasure in the $$$$$ that promoters were willing to pay him to defend against White challengers .
An all black heavyweight championship fight wouldn't be worth a bucket of warm p*ss.
Tex Rickard
Two n*gg*s fighting for the title wouldn't draw flies.
Sunny Jim Coffroth.
I can't sell two blacks fighting for the title they won't draw.
Barney Curley.

 

Nobody would've cared what white American promoters thought. They were part of the problem, and your quotes prove it.

But go ahead and keep posting racist comments to try to make your points.

(And last I checked guys like Schmeling, Carnera and Uzcudan weren't black.)

 

70,000 people turned out for the Gains-Carnera fight in London.

How many would've turned out if it was for the world heavyweight championship?

 

"nobody in their right minds would think Wills would stand a chance"

This is way over the top. I think Dempsey would have been favored, but the odds would have been short.

 

There were big money purses offered for Johnson to fight black challengers, but crucially they were all from outside the USA.

I think that there was big money to be made for a Dempsey Wills fight, but it would probably have fallen short of what Dempsey was asking.

 

I agree.

 

That's where he should've remained.

Instead of taking pleasure in beating white Americans, he should've just closed the door on them and their racist promoters and fans.

Would've changed everything. And barring the white racists in the U.S. made more sense that what actually occurred.

 

It's a promoter's job to back his judgement about what will and won't make a profit,they don't give a **** about black or white they are only interested in GREEN!
You don't think that white promoters would have been ready to promote two blacks for the heavyweight title if they believed they could make money from it?

Seriously,how stupid are you?atsch

 

McIntosh offered Johnson a two fight deal in Australia ,Johnson held out for more money. McIntosh came up with more but replaced one of the challengers.Johnson accepted but then flew the coop,McIntosh then withdrew his offer.
Primary sources for the other big purses Johnson was offered to defend against blacks outside the US please?

 

Europeans aren't all black. The free world isn't all black. Banning white Americans from fighting for the heavyweight title doesn't mean only black people can fight for the title.

It meant only WHITE U.S. HEAVYWEIGHTS COULDN'T.

How freaking stupid are you?

And posting racist comments from promoters who drew the color line doesn't prove your point. It just shows how they should've been removed from the heavyweight title picture instead of being directly involved in heavyweight title matchmaking.

Get your head out of your @ss. The world is a BIG PLACE.

Bigger than William Muldoon and the NY commission.:hi:

If White Americans had the big problem with black heavyweight champions and blacks challenging for the heavyweight title, then WHITE AMERICANS should've been given the heave.

It would've been appropriate. More appropriate than what actually happened.

Stop defending a totally immoral practice.

 

Yes, it's insane to think a champion who was despised by white people in the U.S., whose family was enslaved by them, and then saw boxing promoters in the U.S. ban black fighters from even challenging for the heavyweight title ... should've thought about not defending against white Americans.

The sport and the world would've still survived without the Willard and Dempsey reigns.

Hell, in the 11 years of their combined reigns, they didn't even step in the ring in five of those years.

The sport would've greatly benefited from champs who were more active.

And it would've opened the door to more promoters and more heavyweights around the world.