Canelo has not OFFICIALLY ducked GGG (Yet)

I want to fight GGG.

Now me and Alverez share a common interest, now we both claim we want to fight GGG but we really really dont. well that and the fact neither of us look the least bit Mexican.

 

That's the thing. Lots of guys said Canelo would duck and I thought that he would in fact fight GGG after all. Alvarez has sought out the hard fights before and it doesn't seem to be in his character to do so.

This is maricon-type stuff we are seeing.

Maybe he really is scared, or maybe Oscar has talked a lot of nonsense into his head. Maybe he truly did want the pressure of a WBC deadline off his back - but in that case why are the two camps not talking anymore? I can't understand his reasoning. Maybe he wants to wait 5 years and hope that Golovkin gets old?

 

Not Canela, and for damn sure, not you. Chicano is in your username :rofl atsch.

 

If the fight doesn't happen history will blame Canelo.

If it does, all talk of ducking is wasted effort.

 

So we have to wait until Golovkin retires to officially call it a duck?

If you are dropping your title to avoid a fight it's a duck, it's really is that simple. Golovkin was mandatory, I will repeat, Golovkin was mandatory, what sort of "world champion" hands over his jewellery without a fight?

I'm sick of the part time business experts/promoters on here (they are probably the same part time Dr's when PED's are the topic) justifying a blatant duck.

Stop listening to GBP, Oscar, Hopkins, Canelo and certain boxing writers and bloggers who have an agenda and just look at it for what it is.

 

No, it is a duck right now. But if Canelo makes the fight soon, say in the next year, I could forgive him. At least then his reasons, unfathomable though they seem now, were legit to him.

And if Canelo waits until Golovkin is 38 before facing him, it's still a duck. An old-age version of a fighter is not the same as the prime version.

 

Its a duck , we rarely (almost never) see a PRIME fighter vacating to a mandatory in HIS division , Canelo is shook , if every champion vacates to his mandatory we would have a really sad sport ,but its not the case luckily (we still have our matchmaking issues for sure) and Canelo case is rare.

 

So dropping your belt to avoid you mandatory is not a duck at the time it happens?

At this point in time it's a duck, you can't suspend time.

Let's say Joshua drops his belt to avoid Parker early next year, AJ says it don't make financial sense are you honestly telling me people will say "Oh Ok he has legit reasons"?

 

LOL methinks you have comprehension problems

 

It’s not that simple at all. In fact it’s a highly unusual situation that Canelo found himself in and that’s why context is important here.

Cotto did that. Cotto “handed over his jewelry" before his fight with Canelo by not paying the sanctioning fees. After all Cotto was the Lineal MW Champ, so what does that say about Cotto? Was he not a real World Champion? By your definition he was ducking GG (knowing that the winner would be mandated to fight GG) before Canelo even won that title by beating Cotto, and I would think not paying the sanctioning fees, Cotto not giving himself a chance to retain your title, but still going through with a fight, is I think you would agree way worse for the sport of boxing than Canelo dropping the title now.

And you don’t have to drop a title to be ducking someone. Floyd Mayweather ducked Pacquiao for 6 years and it had nothing to do with what titles he had. Floyd Mayweather ducked a Canelo rematch at 154 for 2+ years and was allowed to hold on to those 154-lb titles and never defend them again. He was still very clearly ducking a Canelo rematch for those 2+ years (while holding the title) before he retired.

You’re using boxing’s highly corrupt politics as a basis for your criticisms which is not going to produce a strong argument.

It’s a highly unusual situation because Canelo has never campaigned at MW. He’s never been ranked at MW, only LMW, which he was ranked #1. Cotto escapes the criticism Canelo has gotten for a number of reasons, but mainly because he’s older / past his prime / doesn’t have a lot left in the tank and Cotto vs GG isn’t as big of a fight as Canelo vs GG is for obvious reasons. But what Cotto did by not paying the sanctioning fees vs Canelo is really even worse than what Canelo did here. Not only that but Cotto drained actual Middleweights like Geale while Canelo hasn’t done that.

Canelo fought Cotto because that was the biggest fight available to him and Cotto just happened to hold the MW title since he took it off of a badly injured Martinez. (who was the Man at MW, but was injured) I think we can all agree a fully healthy Martinez beats Cotto .. at 160 or even at 159. That’s why it’s an unusual situation.

Simply put, Cotto ducked GG in a much more clear-cut and egregious way than Canelo has by not paying the sanctioning fees when he fought Canelo. By doing that Cotto basically said “I have no desire to fight GG or to hold on to this belt”, "take my title Canelo but lets still fight”. You’ve got to admit, thats way worse than Canelo vacating after fighting Khan. Canelo’s never fought a MW, Canelo’s never drained a MW, I mean it’s not even close how much worse what Cotto did was but no one says a word about it because Cotto vs GG isn’t a fight that anybody really wants to see. People are criticizing Canelo because they want to see him fight GG because it’s a great fight for fans to dream about. But that doesn’t change that fact that he’s not a MW, never has been a MW, even though he’s the Lineal MW Champ by beating Cotto. You’re trying to apply normal standards to this situation and you can’t do that, because it’s a highly unusual situation. Canelo made the fight with Cotto because that’s what the Public was demanding since Floyd was ducking a Canelo rematch and no 154-lb title opportunities were available at that time. I can’t blame Cotto for taking on Martinez and winning that fight. It wasn’t his fault Sergio had no knees, he did what he had to do, made a lot of money and won the title in a higher weight division. Canelo took the title off of Cotto, and Canelo met Khan at 155 which was a weight that benefitted Khan (not Canelo) and despite all that many were still criticizing Canelo for not defending that title at 160. You can’t have it both ways, you can’t criticize Canelo for not defending it at 160 then turn around and criticize him for dropping the title. Canelo is held to a ridiculous standard, but it comes with the territory of being a top star in boxing and I think Canelo understands that.

We all know Canelo is a real fighter and wants to give the fans the best fights out there, but he’s not to be disrespected and there’s no point in him holding a title in a weight division above the division if he’s getting criticized for holding it, even when he’s makes a big fight like against Khan wins it impressively and doesn't even get much credit.

I mean all buildup we heard Khan talk about how he’s fighting Canelo at “his weight” “so there’s no excuses” which was complete BS because we know for a fact that Khan said himself that he wouldn’t have agreed to the fight if he was anything above 155. Same thing with Cotto, Cotto wouldn’t have fought Canelo above 155, doesn’t even pay the sanctioning fees yet Canelo gets blamed for that too.

I’m just trying to explain the whole situation and why everything happened. As a fan, I like Canelo because he’s willing to fight the best and make great fights. (like Canelo vs Khan, awesome fight, more credit should have been given to Canelo for being an avoided guy like Khan at a weight that was fair to Khan since he was coming up in weight)

It’s not ideal for a MW champ to be fighting blown up welterweights at 155, but it’s better than draining actual MWs like Cotto did to Geale. It’s not ideal for the WBC to give Canelo a deadline like that right after he fought Khan. It resulted in Canelo dropping the title. That doesn’t mean he’s ducking GG. He has no obligation to fight GG, he’s never fought a real MW in his entire life. But it’s a fight that the fans want to see and if Canelo does fight GG at 160 for all the titles he deserves massive props. If he doesn’t, it’s as much GG’s fault as it is Canelo’s. Yes Canelo knew GG was the mandatory when he fought Cotto, but as a fighter Canelo was just focused in fighting Miguel Cotto. You have to have tunnel vision as a fighter, and you have to focus on the opponent that is in front of you, so you perform your best on the night. Canelo has done that time and time again and has fought the best fighters out there. There’s nothing to suggest he is afraid of GG or any fighter out there, but after what he experienced with Mayweather he has become a much more shrewd businessman and said he won’t give his opponents weight advantages. At the same time, he said after fighting Khan that he has no problem fighting GG at 160. I think he may be willing to agree to 160, but only time will tell. Certainly if he agrees to fight GG at 160, then other aspects of the negotiations should certainly favor Canelo.

 

Cotto did that. Cotto “handed over his jewelry" before his fight with Canelo by not paying the sanctioning fees. After all Cotto was the Lineal MW Champ, so what does that say about Cotto? Was he not a real World Champion? By your definition he was ducking GG (knowing that the winner would be mandated to fight GG) before Canelo even won that title by beating Cotto, and I would think not paying the sanctioning fees, Cotto not giving himself a chance to retain your title, but still going through with a fight, is I think you would agree way worse for the sport of boxing than Canelo dropping the title now.

Wrong, Cotto still fought Canelo after giving up his belt. And he's also a former jww who was on the downside of his career. It's understandable he didn't wanna fight GGG. Canelo is in his prime and just as big as GGG. It's also the biggest money fight put there for Canelo and EVERYONE IS calling for this fight. There is really no comparison at all

 

In a way it makes sense. Canelo can fight whomever he wants, now. He can actually build interest and put pressure on GGG if he fights and beats guys like Lemiux and/or Stevens. He will of course eclipse any viewing or PPV numbers GGG recieved.

He can make showcase fights against guys like Pac or even beat Margarito's a$$ in Cowboys stadium and fill the place up. He might even be able to draw Floyd out of retirement for #50. The kid has the keys to kingdom. And GGG has his leftover belt. You tell me who is better off. I'd say Canelo.

GGG has NO other option that would bring to the table what Canelo brings. It would take him maybe 10-20 more fights against decent opposition to achieve maybe 1/2 of what he would gain from 1 fight with Canelo at 155 or otherwise.

You could liken it to the position Canelo was in when he was offered a fight with Floyd. Win or lose, he made the right choice.

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Cotto handed over his jewelry “without a fight”. He didn’t fight Canelo for that title. Yes he still fought Canelo, but not “for that jewelry”. Not “for the belt”.

It’s “understandable” that Cotto didn’t wanna fight GG, because he’s “on the downside of his career”. That’s what I said, and Cotto didn’t get criticized at all for that, but when Canelo drops the belt now, since he’s “in his prime”, it’s a huge deal. Cotto did something arguably worse, giving up his title a week before the scheduled fight with Canelo (a fight that was billed as a Title Fight). It was frankly about as surprising as Canelo vacating the title after beating Khan if not more surprising. (because unlike Canelo, who received huge criticism for not defending that title at 160, last year this time Cotto wasn’t being criticized like that for defending that same title below 160) Cotto escaped criticism where Canelo doesn’t. He’s not as big of a star as Canelo. What Cotto did was worse in my view because it gave the impression that Cotto didn’t have any interest in winning the fight or remaining MW champ.

I think you get my point, but you are just trying to argue. If Canelo is “just as big as GG” then why does he weigh-in at 154/155 while GG weighs-in at 160. You know that’s a lie, and I know you’ll cite “fight night weights” to prove your point. Fight Night weights mean Nothing. The only weight that matters, the only weight that determines weight divisions / titles is the weigh-in weight.

It’s obvious that Canelo is smaller than GG by 5-6 lbs. GG is lying when he says they are the same size. If they are the same size then why doesn’t GG campaign at 154 like Canelo can?

It’s because (obviously) GG can’t drain himself down to make 154 on the scales without making himself unhealthy. Canelo can because he’s a Light Middleweight. Granted Canelo is growing and probably will eventually grow into a full fledged Middleweight in the near future but saying they are the same size / weight now is simply untrue.

Canelo can weigh-in at weights that GG can’t. As I’ve said, I agree everyone wants to see this fight, I personally have stated I think Canelo should fight GG at 160. I want to see that fight, but this is about if Canelo is ducking GG by vacating the title and the answer to that is no. The reasons why he vacated the title weren’t because he doesn't want to fight GG. Unlike Cotto, the previous Lineal MW Champ, who very clearly didn’t want to fight GG, Canelo has not only said he wants to fight GG but he even said he has no problem with fighting him at 160. There is no comparison. Cotto wanted no part of GG whatsoever, while Canelo wants that fight.

 

I've not listened to Oscar or Hopkins say anything and I've certainly not read any blogs.

However, if the fight takes place next year people won't consider it a duck. If the fight never takes place people will consider it a duck.