Dempsey changed everything and the HW division. Boxing was really almost primitive before Dempsey. I believe the really good trainers were fighting in the early 1900's, after they retired they became trainers. Before that that you hung around the gyms that was good enough. Think about the great trainers who turned to training, two in particular, at that time, Jack Blackburn, and Charlie Goldman. Think about this Jersey Joe Walcott, fighting around the Wills, era. Wills had an old timie stance while Walcott a more modern style.
Again such ****. Watch Dempsey fight...the feints, the lithe bobbing and weaving, the two fisted ko power, all of this and you throw it all away because he was hit by really two unexpected punches? Dempsey was hit immediately by a right hand as hard as Firpo could throw it which Demosey said put him in dreamland the rest of the round. Then coming out of a crouch mid round after Firpo awkwardly spun him Dempsey was hit by another Herculean right hand...the same punch that koed Brennan. In between and after you ignore the short punching, the feints, the combinations. Your conclusion is Dempsey was just not that good? Your understanding of the sport is sad to say the least. Sam Langford one of the greatest p4p fighters in boxing history stated the following: "Dempsey is the greatest fighter I have ever seen."
Anyway it has been a lot of fun exchanging viewpoints with you guys and hopefully getting a bit of the rust off the aging metal gears. Thank you to everyone for a good debate.
Yeah, but Rickard chose Firpo for Dempsey too. (and for Willard before that). Rickard was a promoter, a showman. If people here say "But Dempsey agreed to fight whoever Rickard chose", your response would be damning towards Jack Dempsey and would issue no pass for his failing to fight X or Y. Correct me if I'm wrong. Well, Gene Tunney beat Tom Gibbons a month before Wills beat Weinert. Tunney also already had a KO win against Weinert, and wins over Harry Greb too. So that puts things into perspective. Sure, Weinert was a decent opponent for Wills. But what about Homer Smith, Jack Thompson, Tut Jackson, Clem Johnson and Floyd Johnson ? Those were poor opponents, often disguised and fed to the public as good ones. Well, yes, that's an good explanation. It doesn't change the facts. In the absence of a deserved title shot, Wills cashed in on his status and reputation, often fighting poor opponents. The promoters around New York and New Jersey cashed in with him. It's not as if we're talking about a fighter banished and ignored, we're talking about a major heavyweight attraction receiving a huge building up and attention. A very well-connected fighter (in business - and politically) based in the centre of the boxing world.
In short : I don't think any fighter should be allowed to sit on his #1 contender position without criticism or risk of demotion, however long and however unjustly he's been denied a well-earned title shot. With the champions, and the concept of lineage and the historical tradition, there's little we can do except expose what the champion did or failed to do. A champion has certain responsibilities, duties and privileges. That's just the way it is. There were good one and bad ones, and ones who have a bit of both. But with the contenders it's easier to view them as a group. There may be a dozen or more of them, and should be judged equally, and re-assessed regularly.
"Firpo" Well, Rickard ran boxing. Wills gave Rickard a blank check to choose an opponent. Rickard chose Firpo. If you want to second-guess Rickard's choice--okay--but Wills can only go by what the thinking was in the day, and Rickard is the guy who made the choice. *It has been noted that Rickard tended to be impressed by size and power more than speed and skill. He thought Jeffries the best heavyweight he had seen. "Weinert" Whatever is said, he was still a top man. At this point, Wills went after the Dempsey fight. He didn't get it, so it is easy to criticize him for the choices he made, but I personally have doubts that victories over Godfrey, Gibbons, and/or Tunney would have gotten him a shot anyway. And Tunney was quick to rule out Wills by drawing the color line once he won the championship, regardless of whom Wills, or also Godfrey, would fight and defeat "sitting on the #1 position" Wills was certainly doing less sitting on the #1 position than Dempsey was sitting on the title. Dempsey didn't even have a fight for three years.
