The Fifty Greatest Lightweights of all Time

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, May 29, 2016.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Rocky Kansas, very sadly, is out. Stevie Johnson is in. Word to Bladerunner.
     
    McGrain, May 30, 2016
    McGrain, May 30, 2016
    #61
  2. bladerunner

    bladerunner El Intocable Full Member

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    :good
     
    bladerunner, May 30, 2016
    bladerunner, May 30, 2016
    #62
  3. Jpreisser

    Jpreisser Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I appreciate your stuff McGrain and threads like this can breed some interesting discussions. I was wondering if you could provide some clarification. In a case like Terence Crawford, how are you distinguishing the weights for his lightweight work because the majority of his work has been at 135+? Also, are you counting work at junior-lightweight at lightweight?

    I suppose no matter how it is sliced, Crawford seems like a weak addition, as his competition isn't on par with many others. And if work at 130 is counted, I think Manny Pacquiao could supplant him. His resume is vastly better.

    Have you considered Johnny Dundee? Obviously better known for his work at featherweight, he has some high-quality wins above it.
     
    Jpreisser, May 30, 2016
    Jpreisser, May 30, 2016
    #63
  4. Mr Butt

    Mr Butt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Glad to see berg makes it he deserves to make a top 50 list of light weights .I'm equally glad to see not a sign of de la Hoya making the list his stay at lightweight was nearly totally focused on fighting naturally smaller men who were happy to move up for the extra cash involved in fighting de la Hoya .
     
    Mr Butt, May 31, 2016
    Mr Butt, May 31, 2016
    #64
  5. Gannicus

    Gannicus 2014 Poster of the Year Full Member

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    Terence Crawford?! What a parody mention lol.
    He was far too big for the weight class, Gamboa was past prime and far too small for the weight class.
    He looked unimpressive vs Ricky Burns.

    I can't believe how much people are overrating this guy as though he has ATG abilities.
     
    Gannicus, May 31, 2016
    Gannicus, May 31, 2016
    #65
  6. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Willie Ritchie in two tiers (making it a list of 51 instead of 50).
    Charley White, Matt Wells, Harlem Tommy Murphy, Young Erne, Leach Cross, Joe Shugrue, Benny Valger?
     
    Senya13, May 31, 2016
    Senya13, May 31, 2016
    #66
  7. aussie opinion

    aussie opinion Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Young griffo is a descendent of mine my brothers and I had a great amateur career winning a few titless before life and work kicks in, but we plan to train our sons to keep the legacy going
     
    aussie opinion, May 31, 2016
    aussie opinion, May 31, 2016
    #67
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I really quite fancied including White, but his overall record against the best guys he was in with is really hideous. He did do some damage though; however, i felt that, a bit like Ray miller, he just has too many losses for that damage to include him.

    Cross made the shortlist but crept out over time. I think you could add him for almost any of the bottom dozen without blinking over it but it didn't work out that way. Tbh, he's the one out of these guys who came clsoe to inclusion, although maybe another look at Murphy wouldn't hurt and i'm thinking very hard about squeezing Shugrue in. But once a fighter has more then twenty losses, the balancing act becomes difficult.
     
    McGrain, May 31, 2016
    McGrain, May 31, 2016
    #68
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Junior-lightweight stuff doesn't make it in, but see below.

    It's interesting to me that there have been many objections to Crawford but none to Mosley. I'd consider those two on something of a par in terms of what they did, and while picking Mosley to beat Crawford is valid, Crawford is a legitimate pound-for-pounder, just as Mosley was. One gets a pass and the other gets the rod!

    As an undefeated lineal champion, he gets natural consideration; but i guess i fall in with the majority because he's in line for the bump should two fighters make the list (currently 49 are listed).

    As to the specifics of what would be considered for Crawford, we'd be interested in fights where both combatants are in the region of 137 and below.
     
    McGrain, May 31, 2016
    McGrain, May 31, 2016
    #69
  10. Clinton

    Clinton Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    :goodSimply superb thread, Matt. Very educational and provocative. Thanks for all the hard work. Much appreciated:good
     
    Clinton, May 31, 2016
    Clinton, May 31, 2016
    #70
  11. Senya13

    Senya13 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Just naming the fighters who were considered top-notchers in 1910s-1920s, not particularly insisting on their inclusion. It reminded me of this Benny Valger article - http://www.ibroresearch.com/2008/02/benny-valgar/ - where Ray Arcel was quoted as stating Benny Leonard was the best fighter he'd ever seen from 1915 to 1978 when he was interviewed. Thanks God, not Jack Dempsey)))

    P.S. Lew Tendler?
     
    Senya13, May 31, 2016
    Senya13, May 31, 2016
    #71
  12. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    :lol: doesn't really apply to the great LW fighters throughout history as most are well filmed.

    My point was I rate purely h2h so have guys like Floyd and Pac much higher than most would do.
     
    lufcrazy, May 31, 2016
    lufcrazy, May 31, 2016
    #72
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    My top 15 is

    Whitaker
    Duran
    Armstrong
    Leonard
    Gans
    Mayweather
    Chavez
    Arguello
    Ortiz
    Hoya
    JMM
    Mosley
    Ross
    Mandell
    Canzoneri
     
    lufcrazy, May 31, 2016
    lufcrazy, May 31, 2016
    #73
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    High, high praise in that article.

    I actually think at this point that Shrugrue will creep in and i'm quite keen on Murphy.

    Lew is in there.
     
    McGrain, May 31, 2016
    McGrain, May 31, 2016
    #74
  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Armstrong has to be tier 1.

    Surely. I know officially he has very few title fights but when you look at his fights at or about the LW limit you get a better picture.

    When you then consider the fact that as well as being as skilled as most any LW in history he'd also have a size and power advantage over most.

    I know he made much more defences as a WW but when considering Armstrongs place in history is it really at WW you'd consider him a peak fighter?
     
    lufcrazy, May 31, 2016
    lufcrazy, May 31, 2016
    #75
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