Dempsey v Wills & Greb15rds All Prime?

Some of the Wills-Langford fights were fake. Poor exhibitions. Langford was rumoured to be handcuffed in a lot of fights, and including some of the Wills fights.
Rumours, nothing proven. But that's the best we're going to get in anything like that.

I dispute your claim of 22 fights and 1 KO loss.
I believe boxrec is correct in saying there were at least TWO KO losses. (I don't know about the total number of fights).

"Other fighters" ? Who ?
You go on as if Dempsey was a special or unique case of his era, the beneficiary of good PR, media manipulation and fakery, the stuff that we all know goes on in professional boxing around all the top fighters. And yet you quote the same media's perception when it comes to boosting Wills. The contradiction in your methods should be apparent to you by now.

 

I found this snippet on boxing.com, and it seems that Jack Dempsey came to the same conclusion that I did:

"Jack on the other hand at times appeared less confident, supposedly telling promoter Charlie Murray, in 1921, “don’t get me Greb. I can take on Brennan without too much training but for Greb I must be in the best of shape…he will outpoint me ten to one and the only way I can whip him is by knocking him out.”"

http://www.boxing.com/dempseys_bloodhound.html

Assuming that's true, but it seems logical.

 

double post

 

Yes, I think Greb stands a great chance at beating Dempsey.
But 15 rounds is a long time to avoid a prime Dempsey.
And Dempsey really impresses me with his stamina in the Gibbons fight, fighting furiously and fast in the late rounds. And he wasn't even prime there.

I'd favour Dempsey for that reason, but Greb winning on points would be no huge surprise.

 

The one thing to understand is that more than likely the sparring sessions were with large pillow training gloves. Thus greatly nullifying Dempseys hwt power. Remove those gloves and replace them instead with five oz gloves and a completely different picture would emerge. It would be akin to Joe Louis fighting a 165 pound SRR. First solid blow ends it.

 

Always bitter and jealous, did mommy not give you a cookie today? Do you always get up on the wrong side of the bed? Is it the time of the month? Again when you write this stuff it sounds like you are looking in the mirror and you're talking to yourself


Facts and substance by Shamu, first you say Langford and Wills fought 22 times and Wills was ko'd only once.

The head cheer leader for the GOL's, is baiting again. Maybe he should take his own advice and do a little research and explore the topic

Here's some research for ya'

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Good post Mc

To shamu, Sometimes it's just better to say nothing and just let people think you are a 24 carat moronic nincom**** rather than go public and confirm it.

 

Getting back to the topic, a Dempsey - Greb, fight, might've been like Louis - Conn, M.Spinks - Larry Holmes. The smaller, speedier guy would have been hard to catch, and time. Dempsey, who believed in quality sparring, would have sought the best available guys to spar with. To match Greb's speed he might have gotten a quick LW or WW. Too many here hang their hats on some sparring that Greb and Dempsey done.
1-Dempsey wasn't prepared to face Greb, he was a sparring partner, who just came in.
2-Dempsey's timing was off, he would have naturally been two steps behind a smaller guy, with speed and add Grebs awkwardness, that in it of itself would be a recipe for the bigger guy to look foolish, happens all the time.
3-Training gloves are two times bigger then they would use in a fight.

Greb's strategy would have been to do what he always does and be extra wary, cos one thing was apparent Greb respected Dempsey's power.

Dempsey would have to get Greb, out of his comfort zone, which is windmilling guys and being here, there and everywhere.

Greb, will be facing extreme pressure from Dempsey, I don't know, if Greb ever faced the pressure of a killer of Dempsey's stature.

The game plan for Dempsey is easy to figure, "go to the body". What was great about Dempsey was he could throw with deadly power from short or long range.

The thing about body punches is you can move your legs, your hands, and your head, but one part that is not easily moved is your body.

Greb would have had to endure terrific punishment to the body, maybe times two of what Tunney dished out to Greb cos Dempsey was the harder hitter.

I believe Dempsey would have forced Greb to stand and fight or run for his life. In either case it would have given Dempsey more time and opportunity
to crack Greb.

IMO, there was no way Greb would be able to trade with Dempsey, and he ran to last the distance the decision would go to Dempsey cos he would have forced the action.

 

I favor Dempsey over Greb .. too strong and hard punching over 15 rounds .. Sam fought life and death w Norfolk and I dont see the Kid as stronger, faster, better conditioned or harder hitting than Dempsey ...

A far as Wills I have no clue .. I do wonder if Firpo who fought both had anything to day about the two of them ..

 

I am beginning to feel you do not appreciate my well researched contributions to this erudite forum.

The inference is who would have been KO'd fewer times (fewer than two times meaning once) than Wills was KO'd. I don't think any heavy makes it through that many fights with Langford without getting KO'd, not unless they are extremely lucky. Sorry, my bad. Poor phrasing.

And I know you love to read, so here is some material for you from the Washington DC Evening Star December 25, 1958...

"Even as fair-minded a person as Frankie Mann could not help having his favorites and, while Dempsey was one, Sam Langford was even more so. Langford, another colored fighter who ever got a chance at the heavyweight title, met Wills some 22 times."

 

I would favor Dempsey over both of them, but the Wills fight is very much a pick-em fight in my estimation, especially in the late teens or early twenties.

Being 6 years younger, time is on Dempsey's side as you move into the mid-twenties.

Greb I think is just too small, great as he was, to be likely to be able handle Dempsey over a full fight. I don't see anyone on his resume who was close to Dempsey as a puncher. If Jack is smart, he goes to the body to score and wear down Harry, and I don't see Greb having the firepower to keep Jack off of him.

On another thread, I was told that the consensus on this board is that Greb easily handles Wills. Well, I think Wills would prove way too big and Wills like Dempsey is likely to go to the body to wear Greb out.

No knock on Greb. He was a fantastic fighter, but any middleweight beating a great or very good heavyweight is not something I see as the likely result.

 

I think we need to restate the question in the broader context of what is an actual victory. Is life a series of tabulated conquests and defeats or is it really a grander arc of achievement colored in many hues, some brighter, some darker, some joyous, some mournful? Do we subvert our aspirations to cold digits and dispassionate outcomes or do we celebrate the whole affair as a victory over the forces of profound indifference?

My pick?

Victory.