Did Jack Johnson duck Langford ?

Would you expect Johnson to take the fight for nothing, if that was what was on offer?

 

You're speaking out of the fan side of your mouth and I agree whole heartedly with you, but boxing is and always has been a business.
Money doesn't just talk in boxing ,it literally shouts!
I'm sorry I never saw ?
Lewis v Bowe
Pedroza v Sanchez
Mcguigan v Nelson
Duran v Arguello
And about a hundred others but the game has always been driven by $$$$$$$$
The facts are no US promoter thought it a particularly viable proposition to match two blacks for the heavyweight title.

The offer from the UK for a Johnson v Langford fight was a derisory one,the Australian offer was withdrawn and the only other credible offer that I am aware of fell through because Langford and Woodman could not come up with the stipulated cash binder.

Johnson sure wasn't anxious to defend against an in shape Langford,[not a given by any means,]
there was no financial incentive for him to do so, and he would have had to knuckle down and put himself through a hard and gruelling training regime to hold off the little pit bull,
plus he was never in really top shape again after the Jeffries fight.
If the white public preferred to match him with their less dangerous Vanilla challengers for bigger purses in belated attempts to crown a white man heavyweight champion again , and restore what they saw as the correct status quo ,why should he buck the trend?

 

This is the million dollar question isn't it.

At what level of financial compensation does a duck become justifiable.

Is it okay for Canelo to duck Golovkin so he can face Khan for a much higher percentage?

Would it be okay for Canelo to duck Golovkin if he was to be paid a million.

When it would be okay?

It the interest of consistency I don't have an answer myself. It's not enough to say no, because then the question becomes, what about for 1 pound? Or 2 pounds?

At the end of the day boxers have to make a living so they employ men to make those decisions for them. But as fans we can ask for more than mere fiscal logic, we can ask that the best fight the best.

In this particular case it didn't happen.

 

From a fiscal point of view he should fight whoever he gets paid the most to fight.

From a fans point of view he should fight whoever the best challenger is.

I'm not a fan of Johnson the man, I'm a fan of Johnson the boxer. So therefore it makes no odds for me as to how much he gets paid per fight. It only matters to me who I can see him fight.

Does he deserve criticism? In so far as to say he ducked the challenge of the his best challenger of course he does. If you feel ok justifying that from a fiscal point of view is down to your own view on the sport.

This conversation won't change reality nor have any bearing on the great man's life.

 

How about the fact that he signed to fight him in Australia only to have the offer withdrawn, and agreed to fight him in the US but Langford could not come up with the cash binder to seal the deal. Does that cut any ice with you? If the NSC had upped their offer after Johnson became champion ,and surely as a defending champion Johnson commands a higher purse than one as challenger ? I believe Johnson would have fought Langford in London ,and the old adage," a good big man beats a good little man," would have played out.

 

You racist POS, it is fact Jeffries offered Johnson a private fight. Johnson declined.:deal

Had he accepted it, maybe he could have distorted the facts a bit to up his chances of getting a ring fight?

It is the fact that post-Munroe, Jeffries mentioned Johnson name as possible next opponent.:deal

Johnson vs Hart was viewed as an eliminator for Jeffries, neither really impressed and Johnson Lost.:deal

If Hart was black, you scream duck too. That's who you are, and everyone here knows it. The facts are there was little demand to see Jeffries blow out what the public saw as the next Munroe so Jeffries vs. Hart did not happen.

Did you get your black lives matter shirt for your NY trip yet? It will play well in that bar you are going to.

Now back to the point, there are numerous offers in the press for Johnson to fight Langford, Jeanette, and McVey from known promoters. Other posts have owned you here on this topic. Johnson simply did not want to fight any of them!

 

Utter BS. I suppose Peter Jackson who had not lost a fight in 10+ year wasn't significant. Yes he was older, but he was a hall of fame guy.

I suppose Hank Griffin who Jeffries beat twice, once as champion and who went 1-0-2 vs Jack Johnson wasn't significant. Bob Armstrong wasn't chopped liver only. All of the above fighters were well known and black in the fight game. The more informed posters here will verify the above.

You see, you are really not qualified for this conversation.

I'd love to see your definition of ducking 101.

 

I'll turn it around slightly, had he been offered a career high payday and still turned the fight down, the duck would be worse. So whilst this can be fiscally defended a duck is still a duck in my mind.

I just feel as a champion a man can fight whoever he wants if he forces the issue. And Jack didn't force this issue.

We hold boxers to higher standards than ourselves, or at least I do. I would certainly go for the better payday every single time.

 

Marvin Hart only consented to fight Johnson if he could name the referee and he would have no other but Alex Greggains.Johnson
suggested either Ed Graney or Jack Welch 2 top third men ,But Hart and his manager would only consent to Greggains
no Greggains no fight they said,and they got their wish.


Its a fact Jeffries never offered Johnson a title shot, neither him or Sam McVey .
Why should Johnson go into a cellar and fight Jeffries for nothing just because Jeffries didn't have the guts to put his title on the line against him in the ring?

" I will not take a chance on losing my title to a black man, when there are no more white challengers left to fight I will retire" .

Jim Jeffries .

"I am not into fighting skunks yet"
Jim Jeffries.

When Jeffries defended against Corbett the second time, two challenges were read out in the ring.One from Jack Munroe which was received with jeers,one from Jack Johnson which was received with applause.
Jim Jeffries Adam Pollack
Jeffries stated before the Hart Johnson fight that ,in the event of Johnson winning he would not meet him.


Jim Jeffries picked Johnson to beat Hart here is what he said
"Well I should say that it's pretty hard to pick the winner.But on form Johnson should gain the decision on points.I will say however ,that Hart can deliver a blow capable of laying Johnson out.
Will I fight the winner? Well, no not if it comes out the way I anticipate , my ideas are too well known" Jim Jeffries .from Adam's book.





There are literally dozens of quotes in which Jeffries states his absolute refusal to defend his title against a black man.


My challenge to you ,is to find one to the contrary.
Find one verified quote from Jeffries in which he says he is willing to defend his title against Jack Johnson.


Here is another challenge find one verified quote from a promoter in which he states he is willing to match Johnson against Sam Langford for Johnson's asking price of $30,000?

It shouldn't be difficult if they are as you say, out there.

And please don't provide the quotes that I have already discussed.


Below . Jim Jeffries by Adam Pollack.

"Like his predecessors Jeffries refused to defend against any top black challenger while he was champion"
Adam Pollack "In The Ring With Jim Jeffries."

I love that quote from Joe Jeannette.
"Old friends".

You won't find one single positive quote about Jack Johnson from Joe Jeannette, he picked against him in every major fight,[as did Langford,] he flat out lied in an effort to discredit Johnson's win ,when he said he only scaled 165lbs in their last fight.

He had about as much time for Jack as did Langford. Johnson signed to fight Jeannette in a title defence twice in the US and the NY authorities blocked both attempts to stage it.It's a matter of public record.
Johnson was guaranteed $25,000 and a percentage of the movie rights ,clinching the deal by taking his purse over his asking price of $30,000


"The agreement between the McMahon brothers and the boxing commission of
the State of New York by which the recent advertised bout between Johnson
and Jeanette was called off was undoubtedly for the best interests of the
sport."

Neither Langford or Jeannette were ever friendly with Johnson.McVey was and Johnson paid for his funeral.
Johnson owed Langford and Jeannette NOTHING


Please explain how I am racially prejudiced against White people ,given that I am White myself? How does that work exactly? :huh


You're kind of all mixed up aren't you?


I think Black lives do matter. I think all lives matter!

How about you,what do you think, Grand Wizard?

 

On learning the result of the Johnson v Martin fight Champion Jeffries said. "I do not care whether Johnson licks the Japanese Army.I have repeatedly declared that as long as I am in the fighting business I will never make a match with a black man.
The negroes may come and the negroes may go,and some of them may be excellent fighters.Just tell the public that James J Jeffries has made up his mind that he will never put on boxing gloves to give battle to an Ethiopian". " I am against boxing black men first,last and all the time"
Primary sourced quote from Pollack's book
Peter Jacksonatsch He was a 37 years old alcoholic consumptive wreck!

Hadn't lost a fight in the previous 10years?

Hadn't won one in the previous 6 years either!

In fact he hadn't fought for 3 years!

You're really pathetic , can you actually grasp that?

 

The best fights make business sense, and make competitive sense.

 

Agreed and the Police Gazette ,as early as 1904 said Johnson was the standout challenger to Jeffries. The news cuttings are in Adam's book.

 

Apart from the financial issue its a fact that Johnson signed to fight Langford for McIntosh but the fight was shelved when he became a fugitive.He also made a verbal agreement to fight Langford if Langford's manager could come up with a cash binder to seal the deal ,he couldn't ,so the fact that he was up for the fight persuades me it was not a duck.

 

To be honest the Johnson Langford issue, and the Dempsey Wills issue, almost look like half ducks.

It almost seems as if they dragged their feet early in their title reigns, and started to look at the fights more seriously when they were looking to get out of the game in a year or two.

This is often the mechanism by which a big fight, that the champion is reluctant to take gets resolved.

 

EXCUSES, Johnson lost the fight. Deal with & read Adam's book on Hart.

Wrong! Jeffries lineal title which he never lost was on the line, and he did offer Johnson a private fight. You really suck at this stuff.

He came in there uninvited asking for a fight. Jeffries said he would not draw flies for a ring fight but offered him a fight. Johnson declined.

Fighters say lots of things. Their actions often contradict words, and you have to look at the dates when they said it. Money, of course, can quickly change minds. As Champion Jeffries fought black contender Hank Griffin with his title on the line. So saying he would not take a chance to fight a black man as champion is historically false.

Johnson was a skunk of a man. A pimp, a wife beater, attacking a 120-pound sick man, etc...he had trouble anywhere he went. Your kind of guy.

The rest of your stuff is garbage. If seems you just can't accept many facts Johnson and are incapable of debating them by sticking to the title of the thread. Instead, you ignore what I say, then shift to other fighters.