review of Tyson holyfield 1 and why tyson would have won in 1991(imo)

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Contro, Jun 7, 2016.


  1. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I disagree, Holyfield knew all along from their sparring session that he had the tools and the mentality to beat Tyson.
     
  2. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    More past it in terms of what? If anything he lost some mobility and ability to use lateral movement for extended periods of time, and his workrate dropped somewhat. But at the same time he was stronger, hit harder and was more durable than before and was better suited to beating any version of tyson in 1996 than in 1991. In my opinion mike was the one who was more past it despite being younger because of his decline in boxing skills during prison. he may have still been close to his physical peak still but the absence of working in behind the jab, not using combinations, almost completely abandoning bodywork and his abandonment of defense and head movement, all made him a much worse fighter than he was before prison. He was worse at almost everything, lost his fighters instinct and ring IQ.
    By the way in their actual meeting evander was not beating mike to the punch early, mike was getting off first, but being countered because he threw one bomb at a time. As the rounds went on mike started gassing and loading up on his shots, at which point evander started beating him to the punch.
    I dont see this happening with the mike tyson that fought alex stewart and razor ruddock.
    In 1991 evander holyfield did not hit plenty hard to stop tyson especially if mike is moving his head and getting hit less than in 1996. Before mike went to prison, holy struggled to hurt dokes who was then knocked out cold by ruddock(who's best shots mike took and then pointed to his chin to give him some more) he almost got knocked out by bert cooper, who even chinny michael moorer beat. Evander could not even knock down alex stewart who mike tyson absolutely killed. Compare that to the mid to late nineties where evander was knocking down ray mercer, beating the stuffing out of 245 pound rid**** bowe before inexplicably letting him off the hookand collapsing and then he used michael moorer as a ragdoll in 1997. So in my opinion evander only "acquired" enough power to hurt mike later(coupled with the fact that mikes attitude was no longer the same which allowed him to be hurt much easier)
     
  3. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Howfar are you willing to take this argument? Would a 70 year old evander still beat a 1991 tyson? Yes evander was the greater fighter and had an enormous heart, and sometimes the intangibles make the difference but imo the physical advantages are too much. in my book he is fighting an uphill battle against mike.
     
  4. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Holyfield had been in many wars by the time he faced Tyson and had just been knocked out by Bowe. It wasn't tiredness that finished him it was a punch that flattened him. His punch output and movement was light years behind the 91 version. You're saying he was much stronger and hit harder? That's not true at all. Holyfield was plenty strong enough in the early 90's, he wasn't exactly thrown about by Foreman and Bowe in their first fight was he? Tyson was never that strong anyway and was controlled in clinches by nearly every fighter he faced. You bring up bad comparisons to devalue Holyfield. You're saying he didn't hit hard enough or didn't have the chin to tackle Mike. You say because Cooper hurt Holyfield Tyson would knock him out. Well Douglas dropped Tyson like a bad habit and Holyfield destroyed Douglas. So this proves Evander hit harder and had a better chin than Tyson Does it not?
     
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  5. Big Ukrainian

    Big Ukrainian Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Interesting read.

    What you forget my friend is that Tyson from Ruddock fights looked too one-dimensional in both Ruddock fights. He went to the body and then attacked head, while Ruddock saw all the shots and was prepared, clinched often and threw pucnhes himself.

    The same was vs Douglas, but Douglas fought much better fight than Ruddock.

    I pick Douglas 1990 to KO Tyson in both Ruddock fights as he did it in actual fight.

    So would it be enough to beat 1991 Evander? I don't know. But surely Cooper fight isn't the one we should base our prediction on Holyfield - Tyson circa 1991. Holyfield would've been much more caucious vs Mike and he also studied him for a long time (unlike 6 day-short notice Bert Cooper).

    And Holy could take punches, and lots of them. Ask Foreman, Lennox, Bowe, Mike himself.

    I just can't see how Mike could stop him early as you wrote as a possible scenario.
     
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  6. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Douglas fight definitely put a dampener on things but imagine the hype had Tyson got past Douglas.
     
  7. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Fighting fire with fire would get him stopped.
     
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  8. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    You're right, Tyson would get stopped just like he did in their actual bout.
     
  9. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You bring up some good points, im not trying to devalue holyfield i am a big fan of his. I just dont think it is enough, but maybe i am buying too much into the "the only person who can beat tyson is tyson" statement. But consider that anyone mike hit flush got hurt bad, douglas got dropped hard when mike nailed him, lennox never got hit against tyson and holy managed to roll with tysons punches and not get hit solid for most of the fight. If cooper can get a shot in to holyfields chin and hurt him then i think so can tyson. I am not denying the possibility that evander could win but i dont think you should act like mike has 0 chance whatsoever to beat him. Anything can happen in the ring especially with heavyweights and especially with an ATG puncher and finisher like tyson. One thing i think everyone has to admit is that it would be a competitive war with both having their moments.
     
  10. Contro

    Contro Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Guys please read the part in my original posts where i discuss how i think the momentum in their 1996 meeting changed, and tell me what you think
     
  11. Pugilist_Spec

    Pugilist_Spec Hands Of Stone Full Member

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    Holyfield can't trade punches with Tyson.

    He would need to box him, just like he actually did.
     
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  12. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Nice ****ysis

    Even is one doesn't agree Tyson would win they should admit that was a good case for him.

    Foreman/Dempsey: Holyfield would crush him
    Contro: Why?
    Foreman/Dempsey: Just because I said so.

    LOLLLLL

    As for Wass, he will take it personally that you picked Tyson. Don't let his attacks bother you.

    He does give good ****ysis of why Holyfield would win, he just gets too personal about it.
     
  13. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Absolutely
     
  14. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Every time Tyson opened up Holyfield did the same and got the better of the exchanges. He got Tyson's respect early on and even had him hurt as early as the second round.
     
  15. Wass1985

    Wass1985 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    No attacks Saad54, this guy seems like a knowledgeable Tyson fan.