Is anyone better than the Ali from the Liston 1 bout?

Pryor v. Arguello I'd disagree. He took awful a lot of huge shots, was engaged in a very close fight, and possibly needed illegal substance to pull it out.

 

I honestly dont think there was. People forget now but liston would have been in peoples top tens if ali never showed up.

Ali before the lay off was poetry in motion . He pretty much had it all tbh. Only guy i ve seen close to ali was probably roy jones junior.

I know over the years the pair of thems been downgraded slightly but for me anyway...they ve been at that level just slightly above everyone else.

But going with a pick bearing in mind the level of opposition and how much of an underdog he was i d go for ali of the liston fight.

 

I think a couple handful of guys would have beaten him that night. He was a bit skittish and green. Liston was just ageing in the ring and seemed to lack his top gear. The victory stoked Clay's growing confidence and the monster was essentially created.

 

Just watching i am ali. Great watch. No heavyweights ever moved like ali pre lay off. Unbelievable to watch. Its like hes dancing at times in there.

People downplay ali,s abilities nowadays. Like they did at the time probably because he proclaimed himself the greatest. But he really was a special fighter to go with being a special man.

For me the best cv in boxing.

 

Sure lol

 

Duran beats him

 

I didn't think it was a particularly convincing or dominant
performance.
The judges had it 58-56, 56-58 and the referee had it even.
His best performance imo ,was against Williams , but of course he had the perfect foil to produce it !

 

Just watched the full fight. If there was ever a nite ali proved himself it was that nite pretty much in all departments. Chin. Toughness. Grit. Speed. Movement. Head movement. Feignting. Walking him into traps. Outlasting him. Making him miss. Accuracy. Stamina. Ali must have been an absolute nitemare to fight.

To this day i still say liston would have easily been in most peoples top 10 of all time maybe even higher if ali never showed up.

Watching the fight i d go as far to say ali,s style would have probably been the only way to beat that version of liston. Very few would have outgunned liston. If you couldnt evade him you would struggle to last any length of time. He was strong his punches were heavy he was also pretty quick and he was a tough son of a *****.

To me anyway i agree with the op. I cant think of a single performance since thats surpassed it in terms of skill level against a formidable opponent.

This wasnt mayweather battering gatti for example.

 

Ali looked nervous at times but it was an absolutely brilliant performance. Liston was old but nobody had the ability to make him look old until Ali did. He completely dismantled a fighter the press and public viewed as invincible. I rate this fight as better than his Cleveland Williams fight which most people claim is the best of Ali. Mainly because Williams was shot both literally and figuratively. He mad a better fighter in Liston look bad

 

Great skills exhibited by Ali here. His legs never were better. They alone glided him out of trouble. The way he batted away the Liston jab and countered with those combos that hurt and cut Sonny were picture perfect. Punches only a great fighter could throw.

 

He did not peak for the first Liston bout .. he was coming off a tight fight w Doug Jone and a near KO loss to Cooper .. I feel he peaked in 66 or so ..

 

It was a great performance, but I have a very hard time thinking the guy who was less than 12 months removed from dropping rounds to Doug Jones and getting dropped hard by Cooper was the best fighter of all time at that particular point in time.

Just doesn't add up for me.

 

Summed it up perfectly mate. Said what i was trying to but more articulately.

He called himself the greatest. The casuals know him as the greatest. But for me anyway watching that back...its not far from the truth. I dont know enough about the olden times fighters i dont have the interest to go back 80/90 years etc tbh. But from ali onwards hes got to be the best i ve ever seen.

He just had everything. Was a joy to watch.

Wins over

Liston
Foremann
Frazier.

Cant think of anyone with a better cv than that. Foremann for example came back years later and still gave guys problems. Actually think liston was the best win. Head to head i think he d have beaten frazier and maybe even foreman.

 

It was too close to say the best. It wasn't even Ali's best tbh. You guys are probably tired of hearing this but I think Dempsey from the Willard fight is the best. The rest of his career after not so much but that night July 4, 1919 I don't think any performance by any fighter since or before could beat him.