Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis

Nope, you said you rate Lenni higher as far as heavyweight achievements are concerned. I was just pinpointing the desperate fetish of yours to always add something to put Lenni on top every time.

 

No one says anything to Wass1985

 

Lewis no 3 is a biased joke to be honest. Holmes and Foreman edge him comfortably for sure.

 

What kind of special opposition did Lenni face during his best years? His main competitors i.e. Holyfield and Tyson were shot when he got to them. The likes of Morrison, Briggs, Tua, Golata, Mercer, Bruno are not all time greats.

Holmes and Foreman had the guts to come back into the sport beyond their best years, what Foreman was able to achieve in his second career was brilliant i.e. a heavy weight title in his mid 40's.

Also people give him big marks for revenging the likes of Mccall and Rahman, which i frankly believe is rubbish, these are fights he should never have lost in the first place. It is not like he rematch a loss against Mohd Ali, Joe Frazier, George Foreman.

I can bet my bottom dollar that if Tyson ever got the chance to rematch the defeat to Douglas, people would still mock him for losing the first fight the way he did.

 

The same accusation can be made against Lenni, he chose not to fight against Chris Byrd, John Ruiz. He ran away from a justified Vitali Klitshko rematch.

Who were these worthy challengers that Holmes avoided? He had 20 plus title defences.

Against whom? Savarrese, Julius Francis, Orlin Norris, Golata (a fight he got lucky in), Nielsen. Pleassse. Tyson was fighting absolute bums at that point in his career and only fighting for money, the fight against Lewis showed how shot he had been against a worthy opponent. Lewis cannot claim any major credit for that victory against such a horribly shot opponent. It's funny because the same excuses are used to discredit Tyson's victory over Larry Holmes

Again context is very important, Tyson was horribly under cooked going into the fight and had only 8 rounds of fighting compared to Holyfield who had been in numerous wars. It is well documented that Tyson hadn't trained properly for Holyfield 1 and had under estimated his challenger. Besides the second fight could have gone either way, it wasn't exactly a clear loss due to the ear biting disqualification.

But it is clear watching Holyfield in the Lewis fights that Holyfield was showing the effects of being in so many wars and he did not look remotely the same fighter who had been in wars with Bowe. In any case Lewis hardly beat him extremely convincingly which he should have done being the bigger man and in his absolute prime.

All Lenni needed to do was to grow a pair and just rematch Vitali. I agree he smartly knew when to hang them up after seing what happened in the Vitali fight.

Moot point. Accusations can be equally made about Lenni's career being well managed and that he smartly chose to fight the right opponents at the right time when it suited him in his career.

Which is why George needs full marks for achieving what he did in his second career. I would like to see how Lenni would do coming back again in his late 40's, early 50's and see if he could manage to perform as well as George did. In fact many people believe that George's all time greatest status became even more justified given that he had the guts to come back into boxing when he wasn't the same fighter.

That version of Holmes was able to school a much better version of Ray Mercer where as Lenni went Life and death against an older faded version of Ray Mercer when Lenni was in his prime. Mccall chinned Lenni with one shot whereas Holmes took Mccall too life and death in 1995. That version of Holmes put on an impressive performance against a Holyfield in his prime in 1991.

Took more punches than he had too is meaningless. Point is that history will remember that both George and Holmes managed to put on impressive showings in their second innings and defied their age and physical limitations. Based on this alone, they deserve to be ranked higher than Lenni which is why a no 3 ranking is just to high for someone like Lenni.

Not really, not at all. This is a pretty weak argument used by the fan girls of chinny boy.

Holmes never avenged his defeats to Spinks, Tyson, Holyfield, Mccall. But is that held against him? Nope, every sane person knows that he was well past it in those fights and they have no purpose in defining his legacy.

Ali never avenged his defeats to Holmes and Berbick. No one gives a **** and rightly so.

Also Lewis hardly beat Mccall convincingly in the rematch. Mccall had a mental break down and Lewis was still scared to take out a stationary crying target and still couldnt do so. Not a very convincing rematch victory at all.

I never doubted Lenni's skills as a boxer but he is just not a very likeable personality for various reasons.

- He never gives his opponents credit for anything. The way he tries to brag about beating a shot Tyson, their catskill sparring sessions, why he never rematched Klitshko, his comments against Rid**** Bowe

- He takes his losses very personally. I just find it very disgraceful that even to this day, he mocks and slags Rahman in every possible interview and brags about what he did to him in the rematch. Why? Because Rahman exposed that girly face. Contrast this with the Tyson and Holyfield, they never even to this day slag or get personal with the opponents they lost to and give credit like true sportsmen to their opponents.

- Overall compared to Tyson and Holyfield, he is just not a very relatable personality which is fine, that is just the way he is.

My overall opinion is that he just got lucky that Holyfield and Tyson were shot by the time he got to fight them but the other names on his resume are not of all time great fighters either, it cant be compared to the guys in their 70's. If you are going to slate Holmes for winning against a shot Norton then Lenni's victories over a faded Holyfield and shot to **** Tyson need to be taken out as well.

That's the thing, a lot of people know that Douglas got lucky. Mike Tyson was not properly prepared or conditioned in that fight. No doubt Douglas put on a performance of a life time and Tyson paid the price for not training properly, under estimating his opponent. In that fight Tyson did not land a single proper combination, he did not move his head properly like he did under Rooney, he did not use the jab to get inside, his foot speed was very slow and stationary. He wanted the rematch but he let Douglas defend his title against Holyfield but everyone knows what happened next and Douglas decided to retire after that fight and declined to rematch Tyson. But it was not that Tyson decided to duck him.

But anyone with a ounce of brain knows that if Tyson trained properly and takes Douglas seriously, the outcome of the fight changes.

It's funny that Tyson inspite of a weak resume compared to Lenni and Holyfield is still remembered much more fondly, proudly compared to the later. Just look at the number of Youtube videos for him compared to the later.

It is a simple question really, what is more important to an individual, to be regarded as great boxer, heavy weight champion with a strong resume or to just never ever be forgotten? I think the later is a true blessing.

Even today every one talks about a Prime Ali vs a Prime Tyson, there was even an official documentary on this. Funny thing is no one even talks about Prime Ali vs Prime Lewis or Prime Ali vs Prime Holyfield. Why? Because no one gives a **** about the later but certainly do about the former.

Again the chinny girl fan club excuses "oh he came back from adversity, he bounced back" e.t.c. Please this is a boxing match and nothing else.

Ali lost to Holmes, Berbick. Does anyone complain or hold it against him? SRL lost his final fight? Does anyone hold it against him?

It is one thing to avenge a defeat to a great fighter like Ali did with Frazier but please avenging defeats to bums like Mccall and Rahman, puhhleeez. It is not their fault that Lenni had such a girly face due to which he lost the way he did against them but these were D level fighters at the end of the day. All Lenni had to do was to train properly, take them seriously and thats it. And like i said, Lenni did not beat Mccall convincingly in the rematch considering Mccall had a severe mental break down and was a stationary target.

 

Good to see you come out your closest after your statement that you regard Holyfield P4P a greater fighter than Lenni but one guy continues your fetish for chinny girl and there you are taking the bait. Very predictable.

All for a chinny girl like Lenni.