Evander Holyfield vs Lennox Lewis

Holyfield had better career overall ****ing stupid,only 4 times hw world champ ,cruiser and hw champ ,he did beat very good versions of tyson TWICE,bowe,holmes,foreman,qawi ,moorer,mercer,rahman(knocked lewis the **** out),búster douglas,bert cooper,pinklon thomas,michael dokes etc he was shot when he fought lewis and lennox was in his peak. pfp it is not even close,holyfield is miles higher

 

Whatever your view is on who was better or greater, it will always be close, hence the heated debate on this thread. Knowledgeable fans who are free from personal bias cannot deny that both were great, were the best of their era and how you personally separate them comes down to your personal criteria.

Holyfield without a doubt fought the better opposition, though he had more prime losses. He inexplicably lost to Moorer and lost his trilogy with Bowe.

Lennox fought good opposition and beat Holyfield twice but struggled to get the meaningful fights early in his career and had the 2 losses to McCall and Rahman.

As a Lewis fan I have no problem with people ranking Holyfield higher than Lewis but I do think Lewis would of always beaten a prime Holyfield down to their styles.

 

Styles? This one is not one of the cases of stylistically advantage,lewis fought a completely different fighter than Prime holyfield,Prime evander was much more active,faster,much better combo puncher than he was in his 99 and 00 shot version,he did not have problems of heart and had better stamina,more confindence in himself , was more agresive he had much better footwork...was better in every departament. So how is it a thing of styles ?

 

I'm well aware of the change in Holyfield's style as he got older and heavier. But even the younger Holyfield would struggle with prime Lewis.

Young Evander was faster and busier and a better combination puncher but Lewis style can negate these. Speed isn't enough even if he can get off first which is unlikely with the size difference. Even old Holyfield was faster than Lewis and so a little extra speed advantage will have little to no difference on the outcome. Holyfield would struggle to throw combinations as Lewis would of course clinch and smother the smaller Holyfield when he does get in range. Evander would get reduced to throwing mainly single shots and would only be allowed to throw in combination with Lewis allows it.

He lacks the jab like Bruno and Mercer did to match jabs with Lewis, we clearly saw Lewis dominate him behind the jab whenever he decided to utilise it enough.

The superiority of Lewis' jab combined with Lewis' clinching will kill Holyfield's work rate. It wasn't just age that caused Holyfield to punch so little it was Lewis' style. Holyfield threw only 214 and 254 punches in their 2 fights, yet in the fight afterwards against a spolier like Ruiz he threw 470 punches. While prime Evander would throw more he would have similar issues getting off as he would be kept at bay by that jab and when in close his work would get smothered by the clinching. So no way Holyfield is able to outwork Lewis due to Lewis' tactics and style.

That combined with Holyfield's comparative lack of power, especially when he was younger and lighter, he isn't getting the KO over lewis especially as Lewis was susceptible to the right hand while Holyfield's best punch was his left hook.

Holyfield can't KO him with one shot, he cant outwork him as we've seen Lewis take his work rate and combinations away and that extra speed couldn't overcome the jab and height.

So I stand by my original statement, Lewis' style has a clear advantage of Holyfield's.

 

ali 1
louis 2
holmes 3
foreman 4
tyson 5
frazier 6
holyfield 7
liston 8
lewis 9
marciano 10 .

 

All you said is based on your own opinion , not the reality,"little extra speed"? Lmao holyfield 10 years ago was much much faster and it would trouble lewis like hell, his timing of fight was incredible,his work rate was increíble,chis chin and stamina increíble and he did not have any problem catching taller guys. Lacked of power ? Lmao!! With the chin of lewis he only did need one of the right hands that he landed over foreman to leave lewis in dreamland on his feet,he would only need finish it with fast combination. It has nothing to do with stylistically advantage,the holyfield that fought douglas stops lewis

 

Yeah. Holyfield's right hand was certainly as proven as McCall's or Rahman's.
He poleaxed Adilson Rodrigues and Buster Douglas with those right hands, and everyone he faced in his prime was getting hit from two-handed attacks.

I think Holyfield of 1990 was significantly better than the 1999 version.

 

This is true.
Holmes did the right thing. By walking in a straight line he cleared his head and prepared his body for action, while demonstrating his legs were stable.

Lewis against McCall was tottering all over the place sideways and actually fell into the referee at the count of "9". His legs were gone.
I think the controversy was over nothing really.
Referees have to draw the line somewhere.

 

So it's just my opinion that Holyfield's work rate was far less against Lewis than anyone else Holyfield ever fought. Even when Holyfield was shot to chit he threw more against Donald, clearly it was Holyfield's age not Lewis' style that effected his work rate right the fact he threw more in every other fight is an anomaly. atsch

Yes a little extra speed, Holyfield was clearly faster but he was faster when he actually fought him as well. The speed advantage then didn't help much, why would even more speed be helpful when it wasn't enough to negate the Lewis jab and size superiority?

Holyfield's stamina in his prime would be a non factor because he'd never get the chance to work enough for it to become a factor. How does anything Holyfield do negate Lewis's clinching and strength advantage. No way he can push Lewis off when he clinches the older, heavier and stronger Holyfield couldn't do it, no way the smaller younger Evander does it.

Holyfield is a decent puncher but he never had the kind of one shot power to take Lewis out with one shot. Evander hurt Foreman because he was able to punch in combination against a bigger slower opponent, no way Holyfield can do the same to Lewis. Facts are this, Lewis only been stopped twice by right hands by bigger punchers with better right hands than Holyfield, that's a fact. Lewis took the punches of Vitali who hit as harder than Holyfield, how does a lesser puncher who won't be allowed throw as much or in combination stop lewis? Answer he doesn't.

Prove how Holyfield's extra speed will make a difference. Even if he gets off first, he still has to be in range for it to count. Show me how being quicker will allow Evander past that jab.

How does Evander utilise his work rate and combinations when he will get clinched to prevent this. How does he outmuscle the far bigger stronger man.

How does Evander, at a lower weight with less power KO Lewis when he couldn't do it when heavier and hitting harder when they did actually fight.

 

At the end of the day the Classic Tribe spoke and Lewis came in at number 5 ATG in the Heavies. Holyfield narrowly missed the top 10.

These were superb lists and something for the forum to be proud of. A lot of fine posters put in quite a bit of effort and the results were most impressive. They would hold up quite nicely anywhere.

[url]http://www.boxingforum24.com/showthread.php?t=156253[/url]

 

I'd be inclined to doubt the 'punch stats' if they say Holyfield threw MORE punches against Larry Donald.
I could be wrong. I'd have to re-watch the fights. And until I count the punches myself I won't know for sure.

 

He threw 264 punches against Donald, 10 more than in the 2nd Lewis fight and 50 more than the first Lewis fight. Other than the Lewis fights the Donald fight was the least punches he threw to my knowledge.

This was 5 years after the 2nd Lewis fight, Holyfield threw 354 against Toney over 9 rounds and 344 against the elusive Byrd. So even years after he lost to Lewis his work rate was better than the Lewis fights, age had little to do with his work rate in those fights, it was getting past the jab and being clinched when he did get past it.

Much like when Hopkins uses movement and clinching to kill busier opponents work rate Lewis would did the same the Holyfeld and would do the same to prime Holyfield, being a big quicker and busier wouldn't change that because he has nothing to prevent the clinch or get past the jab.

 

Yes, I edited my post. I AM doubting that he threw MORE against Donald.
I am consistently sceptical of the 'punch stats' that broadcasters supply. I'd have to count them myself.

I agree with the point that Lewis's style prevented Holyfield from putting out a large volume of punches.
I thought the 2nd fight was very close anyway, regardless of the punch output.

 

the style of lewis could trouble the old,slower more static holyfield,not the much more active and agresive evander,and yes it is all based on your own opinion,evander was very very strong ,being bigger is not enough to make you stronger,so this huge difference of strength what you are talking about is based on your imagination. Evander could hurt foreman with a SINGLE counter right hand where he did put his complete body weight ,old foreman had x4 better chin than lewis , evander was more than capable to knock lewis out.
The stamina is not a factor? What the hell is this ****? The stamina is not a factor when you get stopped early but not even in dreams lewis is stopping evander,the stamina always id a factor in a boxing match if the fight goes to the last rounds.and who told you that a 215 pounder older and slower holyfield could hit harder than a Prime 209-210 evander,5-6 pounds of overweight makes him bigger? Lmao

 

Did I then imagine Lewis manhandling Holyfield in the clinch during their 2 fights? Lewis was stronger than Holyfield, that is an undeniable fact. Prime Holyfield was even smaller and would struggle even more with the strength disparity, this is not opinion this is fact. Strength has to be built up over many years, while attributes like speed and even power can decline with age, you can continue building strength well past your physical prime.

As for what Holyfield did to Foreman I assume you are talking about the right hand in the 9th that had George hurt. One, landing on a big slow Foreman is far easier than landing on prime Lewis. Secondly Foreman had been hit with a ton of punches up to that point, was tired and worn down, Holyfield is never landing the punches on Lewis like he did on Foreman. Fresh Foreman was eating Holyfield's punches like candy, only when Holyfield landing in combination was he able to hurt George before that. Holyfield simply didn't have the power for a single shot KO, only way he stops Lewis is on accumulation and once again that's hard to do when your opponent kills your work rate.

Stamina is only a factor if Evander can out work Lewis and no way that is happening when he can't control the pace due to Lewis jab and clinching.

If you want to convince me Holyfield has a chance show me something I haven't seen in Holyfield that can overcome Lewis' style advantage. How does he get passed the jab of Lewis, how does he prevent the clinching?

If he had better defence I'd give Bowe a far better chance of beating Lewis. At least he has the big right hand and the size and strength to possibly break the clinch and force the pace of the fight unlike Evander.