I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by dempsey1234, Dec 31, 2012.


  1. Flatlander

    Flatlander Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Oh I forgot to mention former Garden City amateur Rafael Gramajo.
     
  2. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Saucedo is between '40 and '47, he's 22-0, now.
     
  3. peleador

    peleador Member Full Member

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    Demps ,Who is Sauced's opponent?..
    (Imo)..you guys are doing great work with him..advancing his career carefully..(but not too careful ..like they did with Chavez jr..
    ..i can tell hes getting better..i really like an agressive technician that covers himself good and hits hard..👍
     
  4. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Guys, some commissions are thinking about making weigh-ins earlier so that guys can re-hydrate. That really is not the way to go. If you are a natural FW, you could be fighting a JW or more at fight time. A perfect example is the Arturo Gatti - Joey Gamache fight. Gamache never fought again, and to this day Joey is still showing signs of the beating he took from Gatti. Gatti, had a tremendous weight advantage over the smaller Gamache. I was with Gamache when he won his two titles, he really was a LW, but weighed 140 for the fight. Gatti, jumped on and off the scale quick, when my friend Johnny Bos, he had to re-weigh himself the commission refused. Some say that Gatti had to be 160 coming in. While Gamache probably came in at 145.
    Now they are talking about giving guys more time to re-hydrate, don't know what these commissions are thinking.

    http://www.fightnews.com/Boxing/top-boxing-regulator-balks-at-earlier-weigh-ins-343146#more-343146

    What do you think? Me I am against it big time. I agree with commissioner Sirb.
     
  5. Flatlander

    Flatlander Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Water weight does not equal an advantage in my opinion. It shows more of a possible weakness than an advantage. I have watched boxers suffer to lose weight by dehydration for decades now. Dehydration is devastating to a body at rest. Let alone to a person involved in strenuous competition. I watched Brandon Rios dehydrate from his normal walking around weight of 150 pounds to 135 for several years. Then walk into the ring 24 hours or so later at 152 - 155. I then would read and hear people complain how that it was unfair that Rios was 152 pounds at fight time. They thought it gave him an advantage. When in fact it was a real detriment to his physical and mental condition. I remember the Rios/Abril fight in particular. Rios was suffering from severe dehydration before that fight. He had no stamina and was mentally depleted and depressed. There were even moments of confusion and lack of focus. A person can have serious health issues from dehydration. The brain is the first to suffer. A dehydrated brain is more likely to be damaged by blows than is a well hydrated brain. Not to mention the mental lapses and lack of focus. It takes the body more than 24 hours to re-hydrate after such a drastic dehydration. I am for giving boxers more time to hydrate just for safety purposes. I don't see the additional water weight gain as an advantage other than the boxer is healthier for it.
     
  6. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    Instead of dehydrating and then rehydrating, why not fight at 154?
     
  7. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Exactly, Gamache fought a rehydrated Gatti, and got totally destroyed. I worked with Joey Gamache and tell you he was a small '40pdr. Johnny Bos, Joey's manager sued the NY commission cos of it. These guys as Grey said should fight at their natural weight and you want to know why they don't? Cos the guy knows he is fighting a bigger guy who is coming down in weight. Today a guy who is fighting at '60 comes in at 180 or more. My guys fought on many Rios' cards and can tell you he never made weight. Another fighter I had fought, for the lightweight championship. The IBF had a rule that said that you cannot weigh over 10pds the next day. My guy was the natural '35 pdr, the titleholder really was the naturally bigger guy shrunk to 135. I was criticized for letting my smaller guy fight this bigger guy, as it turned out the titleholder died. Rios will be paying later in life from all the harm of fighting at an artificial weight.
     
  8. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    exactly, Joey Gamache fought Arturo Gatti and was totally destroyed and never fought again. I worked with Johnny Bos, Joey's advisor and can tell you he was the smaller guy. Read this article showing you what water weight can do after that ck out the fight on youtube.
    http://www.thesweetscience.com/arti...ion-achieved-joey-gamache-wins-his-last-fight
    My fighters fought on a bunch of Rios' undercard and can tell you he was always overweight.
    Ck out another vid of the Jesus Chavez - Leavander Johnson fight. Johnson was the bigger guy, Chavez was a natural '35pdr, the IBF title was on the line and there was a rule that said you cannot weigh over 10pds, both made it. But it cost Johnson not only his title but his life. I was criticized for putting my smaller guy(Chavez) against Johnson. To me that put Johnson at a disadvantage. Johnson didn't have time to fully rehydrate.
    Canelo, rehydrates to 180pds but can he fight and be competitive at 180, he would be fighting cruisers. Taking off pds and being in hard fights takes it's toll believe me. The weight issue should be addressed cos nobody is at weight at fight time. The day of weight should be the weight they fight at.
     
  9. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Demps how did fighters like Mayweather and De la Hoya make so much money per fight like 25 million plus but other fighters that are title holders like say Leo Santa Cruz who made only $700,000 on the undercard of Mayweather-Maidana II? He's a title holder who has good skill. Does it come down to how much Mayweather hyped up his fights? I know with the Pacquiao fight that was a real build up and an even bigger let down but Mayweather was making big dollars off of fighters that weren't even that great like Maidana and Guerrero. Walk me through the process of how a fighter goes from his pro debut to being a proverbial cash cow.
     
  10. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    D, It’s simple, those guys generate the revenue to pay them that much and Santa Cruz doesn’t.
    It really has nothing to do with how good they are it’s about the how good they are at the boxoffice.
    Canelo is no SRR and he does good PPV numbers, better than a vastly superior boxer like Guillermo Rigondeaux, who is never going to get paid millions.
    Here are two name fighters who overpriced themselves, Mikey Garcia and Nick Walters, undefeated champions who believe they should be paid millions and instead are paid or can only generate thousands.

    Mikey Garcia, hasn’t fought for two yrs blamed his promoter for not paying him what he thought he was worth. The truth while Mikey is a superb fighter he is a lackluster guy, lacks the ability to put butts in the seats. That's why he doesnt get paid, believe the promoter will never let a cash cow go.
     
  11. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    In boxing you can hype up a fight until you are blue in the face, it boils down to who the “A” and the “B” side are. GGG a great a future HOF’r and he is not a PPV guy.
    He needs Canelo to make it a monster PPV, fight. To PPV Canelo is the "A" side, GGG is the "B" side. To most fans GGG is the "A" side cos he's the better fighter, and Canelo is the "B" side.
     
  12. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    A good example would be the GoldenBoy himself. ODLH, turned pro got with Top Rank, and they selected the right opponents by his 8th fight he fought a durable ex world champion by his 12 he won his first title.
    The promoter saw what they had and build it up, by opponent selection, and marketing. They put all their resources into building him, cos they saw his potential, he was he was handsome, charismatic, had power and had skills. If ODLH, looked like Jose Luis Castillo there would never have been a goldenboy.
    I believe in A&M, when signing a guy, he has to have some ability and loads of "M", marketability, charisma like power you either have it or you don't. Charisma is more valuable then ability, ability you can teach, marketability you cant.
    I myself
     
  13. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Thanks for the responses Demps. How does a fighter generate revenue? Is it a luck of the draw or are things fighters can do to get to that level? I know guys like Rigo and GGG aren't the most vocal.
     
  14. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    GGG has a very vocal trainer, and Rigo is just plain boring. Think about what sets charismatic fighters apart, lets say both Oscar and Ali, having different faces, Ali had Cleveland Williams or Shavers face and Oscar had Jose Luis Castillo's face.
    Neither Ali or Oscar would have been as big, so it is the luck of the draw in reality.
    In any public arena from business to politics to sports looks carry weight. Skills just make the package complete. Look at Verdejo he has been criticized for lack of skills, lack of real power but he still sells out the place.
    Charisma and looks is what matters. Think about all the guys who put a sses in the seats, there is something about them that sets them apart. It's a funny thing about charisma, looks alone wont do it. Gilberto Ramirez is a good looking guy and has decent skills, but cant fill the couch in his own house up.
    I tend to look at charisma. Look at two brothers from a HOF'r father, Julio Cesar Chavez jr and Omar Chavez. Both are not what you might call great fighters. Look at both and you will see why one made millions while the others is floundering in his career. About the only thing you can do is get plastic surgery.
    Like power you either have it or don't.
     
  15. Mr.DagoWop

    Mr.DagoWop Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Thanks Demps for taking the time to answer my questions :good