George Foreman Top-5 ATG HW?

Disagree. The biggest fight of his career was Frazier I. You know the same guy who just completely and utterly kicked Ali's ass. Was undefeated. Seen as just this unstoppable monster of a force at the HW division.

That guy who was then flattened 5 times in 2 rounds.

That same guy who destroyed Muhammmad Ali with left hooks for 15 rounds and then punctuated it with dropping Ali hard, very hard.

 

Would have to disagree here. Strength, pure raw strength peaks after age 30. Muhammad Ali was stronger in his early 30s than he was in his 20s. Talking pure inside, muscle strength.

Stamina peaks in the mid-late 20s.

Speed and reflexes mid 20s.

Power is kind of weird. It's hard to explain. If you have it you have it young and if you have it you keep for a while.

Then you also have to consider that some guys take longer for their technical skill to come along.

There's a reason HW boxers reach their prime on average later than the other weight classes. It's because it places more value on size and strength than other divisions. Which as we know is the last thing a boxer gets.

 

I shudder to think what 70's Foreman would have done to Michael Moorer, and even Evander Holyfield would have been dispatched much like Ken Norton was, maybe lasting into round 3 or 4.

 

Top five is pushing it a little for me.. But top 7 is doable.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree. :good

Here I can agree. But I disagree that we never saw Foreman's prime and that it would've occurred some time during his retirement years in the 80's.

Yes, they do. George was more hesitant and less of a wild swinging maniac because his stamina wasn't the best. He took a more measured approach starting with the Lyle fight.

Foreman was far past his prime during his comeback. He was able to do incredible things for a 40 year old but he wasn't anything close to the monster he was pre-exile.

Patterson wasn't Tyson's equivalent. Maybe for being the youngest heavyweight champ until Tyson broke that record and after 1986 has made it his own. Just because you're the youngest man to win the heavyweight crown doesn't automatically place you at #5. It's what you do after winning the belt and who you face in the process. Patterson didn't face the top ranked opponents until he left Cus. Tyson was plowing through the division's best immediately after he beat Berbick.

 

I agree. I've posted it before - Foreman's record against rated opposition is something like 8-5. Now I'm not talking about alphabet belt rankings. I'm talking about Ring magazine rankings, an established magazine that didn't tout their rankings (aside form the Don King middleweight tournament disaster in the late 70's early 80's).

 

This is spot on. What he did was fantastic for his age.Take out the age factor and concessions and his second career looks a whole lot different.

He was the right man in the right place when it came to Moorer, all the stars very definitely aligned.

Young Foreman had his weaknesses but was also pure devastation.

It would have been fascinating to see what evolved if he'd kept on fighting.

 

Top 5 is possible but I voted no because of the "without a doubt" wording.

 

Thank you! The Alex Stewart, Tommy Morrison, Lou Savarese and Crawford Grimsley fights put things in perspective for me. Holyfield and Moorer controlled him far too easily, sans Moorer's chin failing him. However I do love the Gerry C00ney, Pierre Coetzer and Adilson Rodrigues destructions.

Much like Tyson, we all would've loved to have seen their career trajectory during their exiles. A young batch of Ali "progeny" were on the horizon for Foreman and a young group of power punching giants were coming for Tyson.

 

All i know is that who rates the career of tyson over foreman's should go to watch presing catch raw vs smackdown

 

I have him outside top 5. He has lot of soft touches on those 76 wins.

 

ALL hwt champions fought many soft touches.

In his prime he utterly destroyed the undefeated hwt champion (thought to be unbeatable) and the leading hwt contender. Obliterated them both in shocking devestating fashion. However his retiring at such an early age he was a book without an ending. As such he was never rated highly.

His comeback completed that book. He answered the unanswered questions that need to be answered in order to rate a hwt all time. He was super tough, he had great heart and will to win and to top it all off he rewon the true championship.

Top five for me.

 

Rubbish. It is entirely possible to have Tyson a smidge ahead of Foreman depending. Foreman was tied with Dempsey just one spot ahead of Tyson in the brilliant ESB Classic Forum All-Time Rankings by Division.

Tyson cleaned out the division and dominated it for 3 years. He crammed in 9 defenses and had unification battles aplenty. He brought the division and boxing as a whole right back into the forefront of peoples minds.

Foreman's reign/reigns had no long term dominance whatsoever.

I can absolutely palate someone having Tyson fractionally ahead. There's lots of criteria.

 

Tyson did not win the championship until he beat Spinks.

 

Which matters not to me. Holmes had held the lineal title to ransom for a long time, fighting soft touch after soft touch. The world rapidly considered Tyson the champ, as i am sure the Ring did.