Why did Jack Johnson agree to a 45rdr with Willard?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by dempsey1234, Jul 5, 2016.


  1. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    270
    Jun 25, 2012
    Was Johnson made to take a 45rd fight? Why did he accept the longer distance? Being he was the champion, he could have set the limit. 45rds favored the younger man, a shorter distance favored Johnson, like the ref said if it was a 20rdr Johnson would have gotten his decision.
    It makes no sense why Johnson would agree to fight in the hot sun, with a younger, bigger man for 45rds. There had to be a deal in place, if not then Johnson and his advisors were not the brightest guys.
     
  2. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

    894
    173
    Sep 6, 2013
    Didn't he agree to fight Willard to come back to America and avoid Jail?
    In that case the terms were probably out of his hands.
     
  3. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    270
    Jun 25, 2012
    You might be right, I wonder if that's why the 45rds they knew it would give the advantage to the younger, bigger and stronger Willard. If so that was a devious move on the part of whoever put it together. I am not too familiar with the details of the bout.
     
  4. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

    894
    173
    Sep 6, 2013
    ''Given Willard’s immense durability, the conventional wisdom going in was that the Kansan’s best chance of victory would occur if he took Johnson into the later rounds. With this in mind, Willard’s manager Tom Jones requested a scheduled distance of 45 rounds, more than twice the length of Willard’s longest bout to date. Stunningly, Johnson and promoter Jack Curley accepted. Perhaps they remembered that Johnson had engaged in two previous 45-rounders against Jeffries and Fireman Jim Flynn and scored knockouts in 15 and 11 rounds respectively. Also, a subsequent fight against Flynn was the last unlimited length fight in boxing history and there, Johnson won by ninth-round disqualification when Flynn – driven to madness by Johnson’s constant holding – repeatedly, wildly and deliberately rammed the top of his head into Johnson’s face. Finally, even a past-his-prime Johnson possessed more ring craft than Willard could ever hope to have and he probably thought that asset would see him through no matter what the scheduled distance''.
    Boxing historian Lee Groves.
     
  5. dempsey1234

    dempsey1234 Boxing Addict Full Member

    4,764
    270
    Jun 25, 2012
    Thanks a lot it's surprising that Johnson was that confident perhaps overconfident is the right word. Johnson I don't think was thinking, the heat the distance, the size, the youth everything was against him.
     
  6. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    How did that work out?:think
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    Why wouldn't Curley accept it? It was he who chose Willard as the opponent his thinking being over a long distance the big strong durable cowboy would have the advantage.

    You don't think he was rooting for Johnson do you?

    Jeffries stipulated 45rds fight not Johnson,what was he thinking?
    Flynn began butting in the first round he wasn't driven to anything.

    "Flynn displayed no ability throughout the fight. He was cut about the face until blood ran down his breast in a stream. He was utterly helpless from the first round on and by the sixth was deliberately trying to butt the champion's chin with his head" Flynn trained for a dirty fight fouling his sparring partners daily his trainer Tommy Ryan quit in disgust at his antics.
     
  8. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

    894
    173
    Sep 6, 2013
    Tell is to Lee groves its his words not mine.
     
  9. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

    894
    173
    Sep 6, 2013
    Well why don't you enlighten us all...
     
  10. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    You're quoting him ,I'm just saying what I've read. Nothing personal.
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    It was never on the table it's another myth . Like those that Sugar perpetuated ,if you want to be enlightened on the subject [and you pop up on every Johnson thread lately,]buy Pollack's books, highly recommended.:good
    ps .I'd imagine regular posters here already know .:think
     
  12. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

    894
    173
    Sep 6, 2013
    What wasn't on the table?

    I'm sure ill get round to buying them at some point.
     
  13. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

    97,722
    29,070
    Jun 2, 2006
    An offer of leniency/pardon if he threw the fight.
    You won't be disappointed in the bios,if you are interested in that era.
     
  14. klompton2

    klompton2 Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

    10,974
    5,432
    Feb 10, 2013
    Since when is Lee Groves a boxing historian???
     
  15. TheOldTimer

    TheOldTimer Active Member Full Member

    894
    173
    Sep 6, 2013
    Lee Groves is a boxing writer and historian based in Friendly, W.Va. He is a full member of the BWAA, from which he has won 12 writing awards, including nine in the last four years and two first-place awards since 2011. He has been an elector for the International Boxing Hall of Fame since 2001 and is also a writer, researcher and punch-counter for CompuBox, Inc. He is the author of “Tales from the Vault: A Celebration of 100 Boxing Closet Classics.