Sugar Ray Leonard v Terry Norris prime for prime

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Saad54, Jul 18, 2016.


  1. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In comparison with Norris embarrassing first 20 bout competition from 1979 to 1981 Leonard fought Wilfred Benitez, Roberto Duran (two times), Ayub Kalule, and Thomas Hearns. They had a combined record of 177-1-1 when he faced them.

    Nothing on Norris record compares in this regard.
     
  2. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    you keep harping on quality of opposition so my comparison is not only valid but rendered your whole argument meaningless

    I not only used Foreman but others who upset the heavy favorite based on reputation. It was no rep opponents vs those with reps and then threw Norris in there with the lot of them as further evidence as to why the "quality of opposition" argument is not reliable

    and with that, you suddenly back away then try to confuse the issue

    slight of hand as they call it

    It's funny you should think Terry's record is padded since you really have no knowledge of who the opposition was

    and if you want to talk about padded early pro records, go no further than Leonard's padded with mostly punching bags - guys who just walk straight at you, easy to counterpunch: Shields Muniz, Lalonde, Kalule, Price who had been punched into defeat 4X in the two years prior to being punched apart by Leonard

    it was a big thing for you leonard fans to see Ray ace him in one

    but in reality it was no big thing. We were just seeing a repeat of action that was previously UNseen :lol:

    and then there was Dave Green, another of those limited SRL stalker/punching bags, being knocked unconscious

    but that too was a repeat of an earlier title fight between Green & Palomino from 3 years before. Same result - KO BY

    The guy just didnt have the ability to finish a fight on his feet

    none of which had Terry's mobility or speed and were just built up by the media so the matchup wouldnt look like the setup it was

    Terry didnt have that same buildup as your typical SRL opponent. Then again, he didnt need it
     
  3. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    this further highlights your ignorance

    Jackson was a world champion and Terry's other loss was a DQ you ignoramus

    moreover, you cannot compare a non entity like Kalule with Julian

    we've all seen him remember?

    and besides, I just rendered your whole rep vs non rep - quality of opposition comparison invalid, remember?

    and in case you don't, here's a reminder:

    Terry Norris UD 12 Ray Leonard
     
  4. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    thanks for providing me with more sport

    While they may have had a combined record of whatever (mostly stiffs) Leonard himself only wound up with a modest record of 36-3-1

    How ironic!
     
  5. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Again the comparison is between Norris and Leonard. No one is comparing Norris to hwt champion George Foreman.

    As anyone can see their records are incomparable. From amateur to pro it's all Leonard. Quality of opposition, to titles won to everything Inbetween. All Leonard.
     
  6. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Average record of Norris first twenty opponents (over one third of his bouts 5.5 wins and 2.3 losses. And he lost two of them!

    Leonards first 20 opponents? 22 wins, 6.5 losses. Some real solid pros. Leonard lost none of these bouts.

    Again Leonard far surpasses Norris. Incomparable.
     
  7. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    Prime for prime Norris would be force fed so much Sugar he'd end up with diabetes.
     
  8. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Really can't compare the two. Norris was a regional amateur champion. Leonard an international amateur champion and Olympic gold medalist.

    Norris beaten NINE times. Leonard THREE times.

    Norris koed four times. Leonard stopped only once and in his final fight.

    Norris first dozen bouts were against nobodies. Pro debuts, no wins, few bouts. (Combined record 23-12). Leonard in contrast fought pros in comparison. (Combined record 183-75)

    Norris champion in one division. Leonard champion in five different weight divisions.

    Add to it Leonard fought a who's who of ATG champions. Hearns, Duran,Hagler, Benitez. And he has a win against every one.
     
  9. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Norris lost NINE times and was koed FOUR times.

    Leonard lost only three times and was only stopped once in his final bout.

    Again incomparable.
     
  10. BlackCloud

    BlackCloud I detest the daily heavyweight threads Full Member

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    Look at the 2 of them now.

    On the one hand you have Leonard, recognised the world over and worth probably upwards of $100m and very much in demand as a celebrity speaker etc.

    On the other you have Norris who could quite easily walk down any street and nobody would have clue who the hell he was, even if you told them his name.

    The way i see it, Norris won the fight but the general public view Leonard on a whole other level and i imagine Sugar Ray can sleep quite easily at night even if some people seem to be fixated with tarnishing his legacy on an internet forum.
     
  11. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Of course. This is not debatable. From the very beginning Leonard was fighting international amateur champions and won an Olympic gold medal. The Cuban and Russian fighters he went up against from that time were highly skilled full time fighters. In contrast Norris was an amateur champion in the lowest rung amateur circuit in the US. Very poor opposition in that area of the US.

    Amateur or Pro Leonard is far ahead. Not comparable.
     
  12. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    there's nothing incomparable about a 36-3-1 record

    or 4 title defenses, 3 of them coming against Green, Bonds, & Finch :lol:

    many fighters have bested it easily

    Like Terry Norris with ten def

    and among them SRL who, Terry beat easily :yep
     
  13. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Norris first 20 bouts were against very low level and or very inexperienced opposition. (Average record 5.5 wins and 2.3 losses) Yet he lost two of these bouts! He lost NINE times and was knocked out FOUR times.

    Norris record was heavily padded. Leonard was fighting experienced Pros very early on. Little padding in his record. In contrast the first opponent to beat Leonard was Roberto Duran!
     
  14. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    that's all nice but what good does it do in the end when you're facing a speeding bullet like Norris and you don't know what to do with him?

    tho it's true that Terry had humble beginnings (so did Jerry Rice), he also had all the speed & talent

    You still havent told me how Sugar would deal with a mobile opponent like Terry.

    How's he going to MAKE Terry stand still for him, and stop him from using his blazingly fast hands?

    Hell, even Ray Leonard didn't know and wound up with on the wrong end of a 120-106 scorecard

    Ray, for all his experience that you outlined, didnt have the experience to deal with someone as fast as Terry
     
  15. latineg

    latineg user of dude wipes Full Member

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    Ray was not as fast when he met Norris as he was in his prime.

    Prime for Prime most would say SRL was faster than Norris so there's a point on how he would deal with Norris's speed right there :good