Sugar Ray Leonard v Terry Norris prime for prime

mr. magoo · Aug 8, 2016

=Foxy 01;18113781]

mr. magoo said: ↑

[

Take your own advice and try learning to read what others write. I clearly said that outside of moronic Muricans, and imbecilic Leonard fan boys 2 years, and 2 months ( 27th of April 1978 - 20th of June 1980 ) is NOT almost 3 years.:roll::roll:

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Maybe you should. Duran's last fight at LIGHTWEIGHT was January 1978. He fought Leonard in June of 1980. That's two and a half years , which to most educated people rounds out to almost three years.. Do math much ?

Unlike Duran 5' 7" with a 66" wingspan. Tommy Hearns was 6' 1" with a 78" wingspan. He started as a Welter at 19 yrs 1 month of age. He then boxed at that weight for 3 years and 10 months, and then one month after his 23rd birthday he started to fight Light Middles, and Middles ( starting with Singletary less than 3 months after the Leonard fight ) and progressed up to Cruiserweight over the next 24+ years.
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If you're going to use this shlt about him fighting as a high as cruiser weight, because he fought until he was ancient, then I'll point out that Duran fought even as high as 175 and for the same reason.

If that doesn't tell you something about the guys weight requirements you are either too biased, or too stupid to explain it to.
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It tells me nothing at all. He outgrew his first weight class as do many fighters. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't ideal for him at the time he fought Leonard or that he wasn't prime or that it wasn't a great win...

You do realise stoopid that after Leonard, Benitez had 6 fights, winning all of them, 3 by stoppage before getting in with Hearns at 154.
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I'm well aware.. No different than Duran winning 8 fights post lightweight including a hall of fame inductee, but that doesn't stop you from shltting all over Leonard beating him... Benitez was a 38-0 two division champion in his prime when Leonard stopped him.

Again get your facts right sh!t for brains. I have only ever given Leonard CREDIT for the Benitez win.
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How generous of you.

As for Duran, the fact that this legendary LIGHTWEIGHT beat Cuevas, and Moore, whilst losing to Benitez, Laing, and Hagler between Leonard, and Hearns is as much a credit to him as a criticism.
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The fact that he proved competitive above welter diminishes your claim that he was disadvantaged against Leonard.. He was a kid for most of the years he fought at lightweight..

So what? Chris Pyatt later beat Kalambay, are you going to elevate him to elite level?:roll:
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Except Pyatt fought him in 1993 in the last fight of his career. Kalule beat him in 1985 when he was on the verge of peaking..

Lets start with Mugabi who after back to back defeats to Hagler and Thomas ( who incidentally ALSO beat Kalambay ) strung together 11 stoppage wins out of 11 fights over a period of 2 years, and 1 month before Norris KO'd him.

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He was past it.. The back to back stoppages to Hagler and Thomas ruined him.. He then went on a streak beating obscurities and mediocrities before losing to Norris, then never did anything again period...

Maintain whatever you like it doesn't make it credible. He LOST to the Lightweight Duran. Again I don't care about your opinions Hearns was definitely more comfortable above 147 that he was at Welter, hence another 34 fights, and 5 world titles in higher divisions over a further 24 years.
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The " losing to lightweight Duran" is a strawman argument and you know it is.. Duran was not just any "lightweight" by most people's reckoning.. He was one of the greatest fighters of all time period and still within prime perameters when he fought Leonard.. He had already proven himself as a live fighter at welter and would win world titles in two divsions ABOVE welter... And dropping a decision over 15 rounds to a man of THAT description is nowhere near as bad as getting flattened by Simon Brown who likewise came from a lower weight class with the differences being:

A. Brown had never before fought in Norris's class where as Duran had spent quite some time in Leonard's and even beat a great fighter there prior.

B. Brown was viewed as past prime and never did anything noteworthy again, while Duran had continued to hold significant relevance in the sport for many years to come..

C. Brown positively hammered the **** out of Norris, while Duran settled for a hard fought decision.

Again more p!ss and wind on your part. At 5' 7" with a wingspan of 66" Duran was a natural Lightweight. His achievements above those weights were both unexpected, and indeed only add to his GENUINE greatness. No smoke and mirrors there, as is the case with Leonard.
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The man turned pro as a teenager and by the time he was 27-28 years old was finished at lightweight.. Beating Duran was a great achievement.

Try getting this through your thick skull this time. April 78 ( which was Duran's first fight after relinquishing the 135 title ) up until June 80 is NOT " almost 3 years " It is in fact 2 years, and 2 months. If you think beating one excellent fighter, plus a few scrubs, and a few novices before facing Leonard made Duran a legendary Welter you live in cloud cuckoo land.
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It was two years and five months since his last meeting at light weight.. I've pointed this out.. And beating 7 men at welter including a hall of fame fighter is a hell of a lot more than any of Terry's ascending opponents had done prior to facing him... Who did Brown fight after leaving Welter and BEFORE fighting Terry? How about Meldrick Taylor? How about Mourice Blocker?? Were any of those men ATG's?? You see where I've been going with this?

Carlos had only ever beaten one guy with a 100% record, and that was Dave Green.
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100% record? You mean undefeated? Okay, well I guess Paul Vaden and Jorge Luis Vado are the deciding factors for Norris then.. Never mind the fact that Leonard beat:

Wilfred Benitez - 38-0
Thomas Hearns - 32-0
Ayoub Kalule - 36-0
.

The hall of fame is worth less than pig sh!t which is why Don King is in it.
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Is it more worthless than the opinions of a random disgruntled poster with a stick up his ****?

So lets get this straight. According to you Leonard losing to the little guy ( Duran ) but winning the rematch is an incredible achievement, but Norris doing the same ( Brown ) is meaningless.atsch
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I never said it was meaningless.. But is it as valuable or meaningful as Leonard vs Duran? No... And you don't need Leonard fanboys to tell you that. Anyone with a little common sense should be able to.

Next you will be trying to deny you are nothing more than a Leonard fan boy.
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No fooling you.. I love Ray Leonard..

No it is just a fact. He ducked Hearns at 154, and instead took on Finch and Howard
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.

The Howard fight was a tuneup.. And when he wasn't happy with his performance he opted to stay retired.. Taking on a match like that is no indication of a duck.. But since you've never allowed any concessions for Leonard being inactive going into some of his bigger fights, I'm not surprised that you'd expect him to take on a guy like Hearns after being inactive for more than two years. As for Bruce Finch, Ray was coming off a two year streak unlike most anyone had ever been through before.. It wasn't unreasonable for him to take a soft touch.. Hell he had just beaten Hearns in his last fight.

Once again I don't care what you THINK. I'd rather stick to the facts, like the dates Leonard had his eyes operated on, the seriousness of the injuries ( for instance the second op was only a 5 minute corrective procedure ) and of course Leonard's own announcement ( November 82 ) in which he claimed he just didn't want to box anymore. Plus his comeback scheduled for February 84 being put back only until May due to the 5 minute job mentioned above.
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If you don't care what I think then why do you keep coming back? Leonard chose to retire for his own reasons. And unless you have proof that he was specifically ducking opponents then STFU

I suppose you are going to claim it is merely coincidence that was the time Tommy was smashing his way through the Light Middle division. :rofl:rofl
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And beating the same opponents you give Leonard Fvck all credit for beating :good

Wrong, he beat a faded Hagler, and the frankly sh!te Lalonde, and even needed a catch weight to do that.

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I explained why the catch weight was a lame excuse, and one used by Leonard detractors to defame him.. Lalonde was undeniably the bigger, stronger, younger and more active fighter of the two, and Leonard demolished him.. Once again, Hagler vs Leonard wasn't a case of ONE man being out of prime but BOTH men being out of prime. I was alive and watching boxing back then, and most people absolutely feared for Leonard's health, and for good reason... He had only seen ONE fight in FIVE years and was fighting at 158 for the first time ever in his life.....Shlt all over those wins if you want to.. It doesn't make your view anymore valid.

Now you are desperate. Kalule couldn't carry Mugabi's or Curry's jockstraps for starters.
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In their primes maybe not.. But that's not when Your guy fought them. BTW, Donald never did Jack at Jr. Middle. Who did he beat there, Carlos Santos?

I am sure you would, as that is the kind of drivel expected from the likes of you.:roll:
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Don't talk to me or anyone else about drivel, Pal.. You're more full of shlt than an outhouse at the county fair come september.
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mr. magoo · Aug 8, 2016

Foxy 01 said: ↑

Hahaha, Magoo and the wannabe child molester linking up. No surprise there. Well suited.:rofl:rofl

You do know your new pal was banned for making a lewd remark about a child, and a mans ***** don't you?atsch
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He's not my friend. But you and Rooster sure seem to be getting along nicely.. Tell me how your ass feels tomorrow after spending the night with him.. Oh and don't let him "egg up your pudding too much"

Saad54 · Aug 8, 2016

Magoo - good stuff

great line by line rebuttals

Of course, it won't have any effect on those two.

I wrote a very detailed post in another thread dissecting Norris's record and it had no effect on those guys.

I did appreciate you saying though that "it was one of the best posts on Norris" you had seen.

I respect the way you are able to dispassionitatly dissect the lack of logic in Foxy and Rooster's rantings.

mr. magoo · Aug 8, 2016

Saad54 said: ↑

Magoo - good stuff

great line by line rebuttals

Of course, it won't have any effect on those two.

I wrote a very detailed post in another thread dissecting Norris's record and it had no effect on those guys.

I did appreciate you saying though that "it was one of the best posts on Norris" you had seen.

I respect the way you are able to dispassionitatly dissect the lack of logic in Foxy and Rooster's rantings.
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Cheers my friend. Your post was indeed a masterpiece and I look forward to many more like it.. Rooster and foxy are good for the entertainment appeal but offer little in the way of historical truth. I had a slow afternoon at work and figured I'd indulge.. The two of them are off ass fvcking each other as we speak, so I'll leave them to their intimate time before going back to humiliating them.

lufcrazy · Aug 8, 2016

Leonard.

mr. magoo · Aug 8, 2016

lufcrazy said: ↑

Leonard.
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Could have closed the thread way back on page one with that one word.

mrkoolkevin · Aug 8, 2016

mr. magoo said: ↑

=Foxy 01;18113781]

Maybe you should. Duran's last fight at LIGHTWEIGHT was January 1978. He fought Leonard in June of 1980. That's two and a half years , which to most educated people rounds out to almost three years.. Do math much ?

If you're going to use this shlt about him fighting as a high as cruiser weight, because he fought until he was ancient, then I'll point out that Duran fought even as high as 175 and for the same reason.

It tells me nothing at all. He outgrew his first weight class as do many fighters. But that doesn't mean that it wasn't ideal for him at the time he fought Leonard or that he wasn't prime or that it wasn't a great win...

I'm well aware.. No different than Duran winning 8 fights post lightweight including a hall of fame inductee, but that doesn't stop you from shltting all over Leonard beating him... Benitez was a 38-0 two division champion in his prime when Leonard stopped him.

How generous of you.

The fact that he proved competitive above welter diminishes your claim that he was disadvantaged against Leonard.. He was a kid for most of the years he fought at lightweight..

Except Pyatt fought him in 1993 in the last fight of his career. Kalule beat him in 1985 when he was on the verge of peaking..

He was past it.. The back to back stoppages to Hagler and Thomas ruined him.. He then went on a streak beating obscurities and mediocrities before losing to Norris, then never did anything again period...

The " losing to lightweight Duran" is a strawman argument and you know it is.. Duran was not just any "lightweight" by most people's reckoning.. He was one of the greatest fighters of all time period and still within prime perameters when he fought Leonard.. He had already proven himself as a live fighter at welter and would win world titles in two divsions ABOVE welter... And dropping a decision over 15 rounds to a man of THAT description is nowhere near as bad as getting flattened by Simon Brown who likewise came from a lower weight class with the differences being:

A. Brown had never before fought in Norris's class where as Duran had spent quite some time in Leonard's and even beat a great fighter there prior.

B. Brown was viewed as past prime and never did anything noteworthy again, while Duran had continued to hold significant relevance in the sport for many years to come..

C. Brown positively hammered the **** out of Norris, while Duran settled for a hard fought decision.

The man turned pro as a teenager and by the time he was 27-28 years old was finished at lightweight.. Beating Duran was a great achievement.

It was two years and five months since his last meeting at light weight.. I've pointed this out.. And beating 7 men at welter including a hall of fame fighter is a hell of a lot more than any of Terry's ascending opponents had done prior to facing him... Who did Brown fight after leaving Welter and BEFORE fighting Terry? How about Meldrick Taylor? How about Mourice Blocker?? Were any of those men ATG's?? You see where I've been going with this?

100% record? You mean undefeated? Okay, well I guess Paul Vaden and Jorge Luis Vado are the deciding factors for Norris then.. Never mind the fact that Leonard beat:

Wilfred Benitez - 38-0
Thomas Hearns - 32-0
Ayoub Kalule - 36-0

I never said it was meaningless.. But is it as valuable or meaningful as Leonard vs Duran? No... And you don't need Leonard fanboys to tell you that. Anyone with a little common sense should be able to.

The Howard fight was a tuneup.. And when he wasn't happy with his performance he opted to stay retired.. Taking on a match like that is no indication of a duck.. But since you've never allowed any concessions for Leonard being inactive going into some of his bigger fights, I'm not surprised that you'd expect him to take on a guy like Hearns after being inactive for more than two years. As for Bruce Finch, Ray was coming off a two year streak unlike most anyone had ever been through before.. It wasn't unreasonable for him to take a soft touch.. Hell he had just beaten Hearns in his last fight.

If you don't care what I think then why do you keep coming back? Leonard chose to retire for his own reasons. And unless you have proof that he was specifically ducking opponents then STFU

And beating the same opponents you give Leonard Fvck all credit for beating :good

I explained why the catch weight was a lame excuse, and one used by Leonard detractors to defame him.. Lalonde was undeniably the bigger, stronger, younger and more active fighter of the two, and Leonard demolished him.. Once again, Hagler vs Leonard wasn't a case of ONE man being out of prime but BOTH men being out of prime. I was alive and watching boxing back then, and most people absolutely feared for Leonard's health, and for good reason... He had only seen ONE fight in FIVE years and was fighting at 158 for the first time ever in his life.....Shlt all over those wins if you want to.. It doesn't make your view anymore valid.

In their primes maybe not.. But that's not when Your guy fought them. BTW, Donald never did Jack at Jr. Middle. Who did he beat there, Carlos Santos?

Don't talk to me or anyone else about drivel, Pal.. You're more full of shlt than an outhouse at the county fair come september.
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:deal

:tombFoxy.
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redrooster · Aug 8, 2016

man, if Kalule looked that bad can you imagine how bad his challengers looked?

Definition of slow = Kalule-esque

Terry wouldve whipped both those mo-fos on the same night

latineg · Aug 8, 2016

Saad54 said: ↑

Magoo - good stuff

great line by line rebuttals

Of course, it won't have any effect on those two.

I wrote a very detailed post in another thread dissecting Norris's record and it had no effect on those guys.

I did appreciate you saying though that "it was one of the best posts on Norris" you had seen.

I respect the way you are able to dispassionitatly dissect the lack of logic in Foxy and Rooster's rantings.
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yes me too, Foxy does not like it when he is treated as he treats others, bottom line :bbb

mr. magoo · Aug 8, 2016

redrooster said: ↑

man, if Kalule looked that bad can you imagine how bad his challengers looked?

Definition of slow = Kalule-esque

Terry wouldve whipped both those mo-fos on the same night
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The dog has come back to lick his wounds. So what do you and foxy have planned tonight ? Going out to dinner anywhere special ?

redrooster · Aug 8, 2016

latineg said: ↑

well I was being sarcastic obviously because of course you would use too much egg in your pudding again :deal

plus you quoted Foxys post and then called it trash littered with exaggerations and superlatives when you were meaning to quote Magoo

you two are pure comedy for the classic section :thumbsup
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shaddup you child molester. you offend me

redrooster · Aug 8, 2016

Kalule, it takes a great creative mind to turn him into a formidable fighter

and yet greater to turn 4 fights into "one of the greatest streaks of all time"

Thanks for adding fuel to the fire

I'm laughing at you again

latineg · Aug 8, 2016

redrooster said: ↑

shaddup you child molester. you offend me
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don't make me molest you in front of the others :good

redrooster · Aug 8, 2016

mr. magoo said: ↑

The dog has come back to lick his wounds. So what do you and foxy have planned tonight ? Going out to dinner anywhere special ?
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wounds from who? from where?

Oh that's right, you're the creative genius that turned Kalule into another atg and turned four fights into "one of the greatest streaks ever"

redrooster · Aug 8, 2016

latineg said: ↑

don't make me molest you in front of the others :good
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homey don't play that. For a good time, try John Thomas. He makes frequent trips to West Hollywood all the way from Australia and sometimes partners up with George Micheal

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