Canelo v. Hagler's Top Middleweight Opponents?

Yes, that is exactly what Im saying. Now that you understand my argument, do you wish to challenge it?

I can't speak for Kevin, but I don't really see your argument? Canelo is useless because he failed to stop Cotto? Is that what you are saying? If that's the case I don't agree. I think Cotto was a very good fighter.

Again not directed at me, but I will still challenge the logic. Being stopped by Hagler in 11, and then in 3 does not prove that you have the ability to walk through Canelo. It proves that Hamsho couldn't beat Hagler, not that he would beat Canelo. That doesn't make any sense. The same with Antoufermo, being gifted a draw and then being stopped in 4 rounds proves that he couldn't beat Hagler. Not that he would beat Canelo.

Hagler might well hit harder than Canelo, but to say that Canelo's power isn't anywhere near is a stretch. The kid clearly hits hard. Hagler is, of what I seen of Canelo so far, clearly the superior fighter. But his main advantage would not be greater power.

You didn't ask a question, so what exactly is it that I'm supposed to respond to? I have no explanation as to why Ishida stopped Kirkland, I suppose James wasn't as good as people believed and Ishida wasn't as bad. But again, what is your argument? Canelo took 3 rounds to stop Kirkland so that must mean he is useless? Then again, my answer is I don't agree.

I haven't seen that fight in a long while. At the time I was shocked at how poor Oscar looked and thought Sturm deserved the nod. No I do not pick Sturm to beat all Hagler's opponent, but he would be competitive with them and win some of the fights.

I clearly think higher about Canelo than you, maybe that's the pattern?

 

Geraldo: The benchmark of consistency.

Fought a good defensive fight, from what I recall.


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Who would you pick, the DLH that fought May or the Canelo that fought May? Would you mind doing me a favor and say why you wrote that I implied Canelo was 'useless' because he didn't stop Cotto and he didn't stop Kirkland as early as Ishida did? But those were events that actually transpired. Now once you can't because I neither wrote nor implied that, would you please explain why you wrote that in the 1st place? What I wrote was that he was a good strap holder at 154 with solid power. I don't understand how that means useless. As far as Cotto is concerned, yes he was a very good champion in his day at 140 and 147 and is a Hall of Famer there due to what he actually accomplished. But he isn't a HoFer at 154 Caneloweight, nor is he at 160. He was lucky to get a middleweight strap against Sergio, who obviously should not have been in the ring that night due to his leg injury. Hamsho and Antuofermo went 11 and 15 against Hagler which is why I believe they walk through Canelo. I don't believe Canelo is close to Hagler in power. Do you believe Canelo can compare in power to Hagler? Do you believe Canelo has a chance against Hagler? Do you believe Cotto goes the distance against Hagler?

 

Im not sure. Canelo probably. In his prime I would put money on Oscar, but not at that point in his career. Would be a good fight though. Why do you ask?

Alright, you don't think Canelo is useless because he failed to stop Cotto. But you hold is against him? If you don't, I don't see why you would bring it up.

I don't understand your logic at all. Hamsho and Antoufermo lost to Hagler so they are safe picks to walk through Alvarez, how is that logical?

I already told I believe Alvarez to be fairly close in power to Hagler.

Im pretty confident that Hagler would beat him. From what I've seen of Alvarez so far he is good, but Marvin is superior.

I pick Hagler to beat Cotto, if he would stop him or not Im not sure. Out of 10 fights maybe 4 or 5 would go the distance.

 

Can they come in at 160lbs?:think

 

If Hagler defended against Canelo, he'd definitely be in the discussion as a top 3 opponent behind Leonard and Hearns.

 

Concerning the 1st thing you wrote on this thread, I don't believe Oscar was terrific at 154 and 160. He was past his best and clearly not the great fighter he was at the lower weights. That's why I asked. And yes I believe that Canelo is not a great puncher, but rather a good one at 154 and part of that is due to his not being able to knock Cotto out, despite all of his physical advantages. Hamsho and Antuofermo had granite jaws at middleweight and I don't believe Canelo has the firepower to keep them off. I think it's unfathomable that Cotto goes the distance with Hagler, period. I don't see Cotto getting out of the 4th round against Hagler. And I don't believe Canelo has anything close to Hagler's power. We will just have to agree to disagree.

 

Fair enough. I think you underrate Canelo, but I might be wrong. The kid is still young, he could turn out to be a pretty poor middleweight contender, or a great champion.

 

I have to agree with almost all of the above.

Putting Cotto in with Hagler would have been criminally negligent.

I can't understand where this virtual parallel in punch power between Canelo and Hagler has come from. I can't think of any genuine middleweights Alvarez has stopped.


On a side note - Although Oscar's bouts at 154 didn't make him an outstanding LMW, the Vargas fight was a good watch and, I felt, was quite impressive (At Middleweight, he was a disaster).



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:goodCheers. Oscar did a nice job against Vargas, but I always felt Trinidad brutally ruined Fernando.

 

I'm just stunned that Alvarez and Hagler are even being mentioned in the same thread like one would be able to compete with the other. There's even some argument that there's a parity in their punching power. I suggest you watch Hagler vs Simpson for a display of what the perfect middleweight looks like. Hagler busts him up with a piston like jab before a clinical stoppage and I take that Sibson to give Canelo all the hell fire he can handle in a 50/50 war.
Hamsho would drag him into a war also, again a 50/50 fight. I actually think that Canelo would likely finish Minter late on as he could be a bit fragile and Antuofermo would be overpowered. The Hagler opponent that I think we be a great match up with Alvarez is Mugabi. Could see that being a real barn burner while it lasted.

 

Hagler is a great champion from the past, Canelo is one the current titleholder (weird as that is, since he seemingly refuses to fight at 160), its natural to compare them.

So far no one in this thread has claimed that Alvarez would beat Hagler, just that he would be competitive with and maybe even beat some of Hagler's opponents. An opinion you seem to share.

 

Canelo is not a middleweight. I doubt he would do well.

 

Great point. I reckon best versions of Sibson & Roldan could stop Canelo; Hamsho & Vito could bully him and outbrawl/outpoint him.