HBO ratings have dropped 23% from 2016. My look at the numbers.

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Noah Elly, Aug 18, 2016.


  1. Noah Elly

    Noah Elly New Member Full Member

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    Jul 19, 2016
    "btw, I think that HBO is going to cancel boxing." This was my line to the guys in the boxing chat today. I know there are a plethora of thoughts and feelings you might have about that. I find it sad that it could be the case because I love HBO's boxing broadcasts just as much as the next guy. But the sentiment isn't fueled by nothing.
    HBO has done a few really interesting things this year that support my theory. I've put together some information so that we can look at things and see if the writing is on the wall.
    Lately HBO has:
    Allegedly dropped their budget to $25 million
    Passed on fights featuring their established stars and forced them to the pay-per-view mode.
    Terminated the contract of one of the few remaining superstars in the sport.
    So I did some researching and quick number crunching.
    Note: These are Nielsen numbers.
    Here goes:
    2016

    Fight Viewers
    Andre Ward vs Alexander Brand 742,000
    Terence Crawford vs Viktor Postol ~50,000
    Sergey Kovalev vs Isaac Chilemba 355,000
    Rocky Martinez vs Vasyl Lomachenko 585,000
    Francisco Vargas vs Orlando Salido 833,000
    Canelo Alvarez vs Amir Khan ~600,000
    Gennady Golovkin vs Dominic Wade 1,325,000
    Manny Pacquiao vs Timothy Bradley ~400,000
    Andre Ward vs Sullivan Barrera 1,064,000
    Luis Ortiz vs Tony Thompson 740,000
    Terence Crawford vs Hank Lundy 982,000
    Sergey Kovalev vs Jean Pascall 2 1,179,000
    Number of cards: 12 Number of non-ppv cards: 9 Average non-ppv ratings: 867,222
    2015

    Fight Viewers
    Bryant Jennings vs Luis Ortiz 616,000
    Wladimir Klitschko vs Tyson Fury 1,038,000
    Miguel Cotto vs Canelo Alvarez 900,000
    Timothy Bradley vs Brandon Rios 910,000
    Terence Crawford vs Dierry Jean 1,017,000
    Gennady Golovkin vs David Lemieux ~150,000
    Lucas Matthysse vs Viktor Postol 642,000
    Sergey Kovalev vs Nadjib Mohammedi 1,014,000
    Tomthy Bradley vs Jessie Vargas 1,121,000
    Nicholas Walters vs Miguel Marriaga 588,000
    Miguel Cotto vs Daniel Geale 1,589,000
    Gennady Golovkin vs Willie Monroe Jr 1,300,000
    Canelo Alvarez vs James Kirkland 2,100,000
    Floyd Mayweather vs Manny Pacquiao lol
    Wladimir Klitschko vs Bryant Jennings 1,637,000
    Lucas Matthysse vs Ruslan Provodnikov 1,234,000
    Sergey Kovalev vs Jean Pascal 1,152,000
    Zou Shiming vs Amnat Ruenroeng 35,000,000
    Gennady Golovkin vs Martin Murray 862,000
    Mike Alvarado vs Brandon Rios 1,200,000
    Number of cards: 20 Number of non-ppv cards: 17 Average non-ppv ratings: 1,126,250
    Comparisons

    Let's compare now. Right next to each other.
    2015 - 1,126,250
    2016 - 867,222
    That is a 23% drop off in viewers.
    Conclusions to draw

    I pointed all this out to the guys in the chat and they started to throw out some ideas or conclusions they saw. I’ve credited them.
    Most importantly, I think that the fights they're making just aren't good. I mean, if we're honest, let's just compare the fights. Let's assign two parameters which seem to indicate success. Either a. they're 50-50 fights or b. feature two names that lots of casual fans will recognize. (Only looking at non-ppv btw.) 2016 has had 1 fight that is 50-50 (Vargas-Salido) and 1 with 2 big names (Kovalev-Pascal. 2015 had 8 50-50 fights (Jennings-Ortiz, Klitschko-Fury, Matthysse-Postol, Bradley-Vargas, Alvarez-Kirkland, Cotto-Geale, Matthysse-Provodnikov, Kovalev-Pascal) and 2 big name fights (Bradley-Rios, Alvarado Rios). Another way to label this is to look at these as meaningful fights. 2 meaningful fights in 2016 (so far) compared with 10 in 2015. That alone is a major drop in quality.
    Gennady Golovkin and Terence Crawford's fans represent a demographic we’ve not seen yet and HBO is not a fan of. These are basically the type of fans that tune in if it’s there to watch without any additional cost. I think this is a new age fan because Pacquiao’s fans have typically tuned in no matter what. Dare I suggest that these are fans that do not have an emotional attachment sewn from ethnic background?
    Dominic Wade is somehow a secretly big star. Top 5 p4p. (courtesy of /u/hommytearns)
    Objectively speaking, Rios-Alvarado was just about as successful as any Golovkin fight. (/u/hu_lee_oh)
    HBO can't compete with PBC and their free boxing (/u/majesticdean)
    Conspiracy theory because everyone likes conspiracy theories:

    Al Haymon is to blame. He inflated the fighter purses in a move years in the making to destroy HBO from within! Now he's free to make unification fights on free TV for whatever price he wants!!!!!! This is going to come full circle when Berto vs Salka headlines HBO championship boxing next Spring!!!
    Bob Arum, who is HBO's primary business partner, is sabotaging HBO because he wants to move to other networks and begin bidding wars for the more important fights.
    with game of thrones budget spiraling out of control as more dragons need to be found and trained for shooting, coupled with HBO potentially making a series about Watchmen maybe they need the boxing money to fund the long awaited Harry Potter remake series that spans 80 episodes and gives us the blow by blow of things like SPEW, conversations with Hagrid, and full length quidditch matches.
    The main theory

    The main theory I have is that maybe HBO is seeing that they can do away with boxing. Ratings are dropping. Purses are getting bigger. Stars are retiring and or losing. And maybe the new fan isn't interested in viewing in the traditional. Maybe a subscription to HBO isn't what it used to be. Maybe they don't see HBO Now as a viable and profitable avenue for fightings going forward and thus they are going to shed it.
    I mean, every since Gonzalez last year, can you think of a star that HBO has tried to create? We used to get so much for the new guys. We knew who Adrien Broner was thanks to the work HBO did. We knew Golovkin and saw him riding his scooter in the park. Right now there's nothing on the horizon. HBO is selling us nothing. Is this their last ride?
    I hope not. I know there are other factors to consider, but with the information available, their shallow upcoming schedule, relatively weak fights, and termination of a bonafide superstar's contract, things don't look so good for the future.
    What do you think?
     
  2. plank46

    plank46 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    i think with ward and kovalev's last fights barely drawing 1,100,000 between them, on regular hbo, their ppv is doomed to be a huge bust.
     
  3. theXshape

    theXshape Active Member Full Member

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    Kovalev normally draws people, but his last fight was on a monday. It was to be expected.

    But yes, I don't see their fight drawing big numbers on PPV.
     
  4. Uppercut_Artist

    Uppercut_Artist Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    Good research, but I disagree with the conclusion deduced from the ****ysis.
    HBO may trim and scale back, cyclically, but they will never completely abandon boxing leaving the sport exclusively to Showtime and PBC.
    More than likely HBO is just being forced to reshape their boxing business model to the new reality PBC/Al Haymon is creating on free TV.
     
  5. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    HBO has created a vicious cycle for themselves. Their boxing spending has been in a multi-year downtrend to cover the exploding cost of producing other new original content. There's currently a shortage of production facilities and personnel that's driving up the cost of production at a very high rate.

    Thanks to that, HBO figures they can cut the boxing budget to cover those costs.

    Ratings go down because fights that could be made before get out on PPV or don't get made at all.

    Then more gets cut from the budget because ratings go down.

    Their recent support of EE fighters, who were before as useful to them as the guy the Undertaker beat up every week using his real name and treated accordingly, is primarily because they fought cheap for the ratings they brought in.

    The down cycle isn't done.
     
  6. Robney

    Robney ᴻᴼ ᴸᴼᴻᴳᴲᴿ ᴲ۷ᴵᴸ Full Member

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    Americans just don't seem to like boxing anymore.

    Maybe they should dress up in 20lbs of protective gear (helmet/shoulderpads etc.), have the referees walk around in black/white striped shirts, having multiple timeouts when one boxer is in trouble, and replace the ringcard girls with cheerleaders. :klitfanb:
     
  7. Hatesrats

    Hatesrats "I'm NOT Suprised..." Full Member

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    :deal
     
  8. MVC!

    MVC! The Best Ever Full Member

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    No he doesn't. He was in Vegas against Mohammedi and the arena was literally empty.

    :nut:lol:

    The man draws nothing.
     
  9. Real P4P

    Real P4P Guest

    He draws more then ward come on at least admit that?

    ward cant even fill a arena in ockland his last fight he paid people to watch him
     
  10. Uppercut_Artist

    Uppercut_Artist Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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    HBO is being affected by their own short sightedness and business model.
    They aren't doing big business with Al Haymon and Haymon has all the best fighters signed under his management.
    All the most recent best fight have been on PBC, free TV.
    With the exception of Crawford, Top Rank provides a mediocre product, inferior to the PBC free offering.
    When Mayweather retired, it left a huge vacuum.

    HBO boxing needs an enema.
     
  11. Rico Spadafora

    Rico Spadafora Master of Chins Full Member

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    NBC has already said they are not going to allow Haymon to do anymore time buys after the initial PBC contract expires. How bad is it when a network won't even let you pay them to put on a program? :rofl

    Boxing isn't going anywhere on HBO. A lot of their money for programming is tied up in the new tv show 'Westworld' and the final two seasons of 'Game of Thrones'. HBO isn't the one in trouble.
     
  12. UniversalPart

    UniversalPart Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    If you're not promoting properly, of course there will be a drop.
     
  13. theXshape

    theXshape Active Member Full Member

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    We're talking about numbers on the broadcast, not gate attendance.
     
  14. Blackclouds

    Blackclouds Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    All these words just to blame somebody Black. ***** please. HBO should blame themselves.
     
  15. houmzz

    houmzz Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Matchmaking have been terrible this year,last year was better but still didn't provide nothing excellent,no wonder numbers are dropping.Top Rank made fights for themselves not for public and HBO supported that and that backfired.Top Rank and others just don't see what boxing public and average viewer wants.