James Toney. Under-rated?

I think quite a few of the older brigade underrate him and quite a few of the new overrate him so it balances out reasonably well.

 

So what ? Toney should have gotten the décision twice against Griffin and against Peter I

 

Yeah, in the end I think it evened itself out for Toney. The Tiberi robbery was the worst decision of them all I'd say, though.

 

While Tiberi deserved the decision, it is not quite the robbery that people make it out to be. While Tiberi clearly outworked Toney in most of the rounds, his work was not always effective plus Toney would sometimes score the cleaner blows. Last time I scored it, I had it 114-113 for Tiberi and I don't think I was being generous to Toney.

 

I've only watched it once and that was a while ago, but I had it very clearly for Tiberi. Don't remember the exact score, though.

And I'm not one who gives rounds for just activity and aggression. Had Toney way ahead of Jirov.

 

I agree with you.Toney looked dead tired and off balance, that is where the misconception comes from.

 

Excuses excuses.

 

Are you seriously knocking Jones Jr because he DIDN'T turn up fat?

 

I am saying Jones Jr was nothing more than reflexes, and athleticism as evidenced by the beatings, and KO's he took when those assets deserted him. Whereas Toney had natural fighting ability in more or less any condition he turned up in. I should have thought that was patently obvious.

 

I agree

 

As one of Boxing's stalwart protagonists, with a colorful 25-year-plus career, it's like Toney has been around forever and he tends to get the due respect from Boxing Writers and pundits, despite his less savory characteristics and unhealthy habits.

Most of his proponents point to his 'Old School' style and his achievements in higher divisions, whilst never getting stopped, as the factors that make him remarkable. There are also the key-name wins, e.g. Nunn, McCallum, Barkley, Holyfield for which he receives recognition.

Detractors comment on his struggling to beat opponents; some of whom could be considered as having caused Toney problems against the grain of expectation. Toney has a litany of such cases, against both high and medium level competition. There were also some questionable decisions. Collectively, this has given the impression that he failed to make himself truly dominant in any division.


Both sides have a case.


However, his lifestyle and lack of conditioning is often glossed over and or even used in support of his case for a high rating. But this can be no excuse for whatever performances that either he or his fans want to use it for. Boxing is a lifestyle and, if a Professional Boxer wants to interfere with that, then upon their shoulders be it. This side of Toney no doubt lets him down. The extent of the negative impact will remain debatable, as it seemed to be the standard excuse, attributed directly or indirectly, to explain every questionable performance.

I do think he gets a lot more credit than he deserves on forums - sometimes to extremes, e.g. people trying to frame Toney as an ATG. (Ironically, I find a lot of the 'Roy Boys' take this angle, in order to exemplify Jones Jr's win over Toney as being one against a prime ATG. This, regardless of the fact that the result could equally be seen as Toney having his limitations exposed.)

Rating Toney as an ATG is to quite definitely overate him. That said, he's had a significant impact on the sport and been able to do so by virtue of his ability to 'compete'. This has led to an extraordinary career and a great, great story, which will always have him remembered. Toney's a future HOFer, for sure and to think otherwise is to under-rate him.

 

I agree too. One of my favourite Toney fights where he appeared to be in top shape was against Glen Wolfe.

 

I think the boxing world will give Toney more credit with time passing by.

A 90 fight career that spans over 25 years, from middleweight to heavyweight. An impressive resume and a willingness to always face the best. A true old school fighter.

 

I like to compare Toney with Duran. The big difference is Duran was dominant as a lightweight for 8 years, yet Toney only for 4 years as a middleweight. That is why Duran ranks higher as an ATG.

 

That depends on your definition of dominance over a division.

I would suggest that Duran became the dominant Lightweight when he avenged his loss to Estaban De Jesus and remained so until their rubber match - roughly a four year period.

I do not consider Toney to have been the dominant Middleweight, at any point. His title run was less than two years, during which he never unified in a run that included 3 close decisions, including a draw, along with at least one gift decision.

In my opinion, Toney cannot be compared to Duran in any meaningful way and does not, on the basis of his Middleweight Titlist reign, attract an ATG status.