Sorry, but Golovkin is a lightweight NoBody, relatively

bailey · Nov 11, 2015

des3995 said: ↑

We aren't talking about now, which is clearly weak. Even weaker than in the early 00's, as you don't even have a Calzaghe or even an Ottke around. We're talking 3, 4 years ago. The division was never as strong as it was when it had Ward, Kessler, Froch and Bute on top of their games.

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Consider faded Kessler beat Froch and then try and tell me its better than when you had undefeated Calzaghe, undefeated prime Kessler, undefeated Lacy, 3 time champ Beyer to name a few and not including fighters who although faded like Reid were able to beat fighters clearly like Magee who went on to push Froch and Bute, add Mundine who was around. Consider also that some fighters who beat prime G Johnson at SMW were not top 10, yet Johnson himself was top 10 at the time you note, which should tell you enough when you consider it.
You note faded Kessler a few years ago but dont note he had been around some years previously.
The division was more well known due to a competition and opened up to more American fans due to Ward winning a title, as many american SMWs hadnt been as successful. You have to remember there became an interest when Lacy appeared.

The fight wasn't that close. He didn't struggle.

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Guess we will have to differ on that one. I think Froch won but if you dont think Froch struggled look at the official scorecards, listen to the commentary and some of the threads that appeared on ESB. I guess people see different things

You call that challenging Bute? Magee got waxed as I remember it.

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Which shows the level again, when he was put down something like 4 times by faded Reid but years later goes on to challenge Bute

Examples that can just as easily be provided by looking at some of the weak challengers that were getting title shots back then..... but what's the point?
It isn't only about winning titles. There are a lot of instances where journeymen fighters are able to grab a title.

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I agree there were some weak challenges, but some were not weak, but the opponents were not as known. There are also weak challenges now but due to the division being known more and a bit more hype it is not as realised when it does happen.
Still many that didnt cut it in the previous era were either able to go on in the next or their victims were able to go on, which is the main point

Brinkley? Again, it's been shown that guys can work their way through an alphabet orgs ranks and make themselves a contender for a title. Brinkley was no different from a guys like Veit or other guys of equal quality. They work their way up, they get a shot.

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Think Veit did a fair bit more than Brinkley. You are making out Veit is one of the weak challenges but if you go to the era you mentioned, Veit had a better resume than many in the top 10 at that time and still does in many cases, which makes it seem like when a division is more known.
Look at how I mentioned hype and even matched fights can fool people and think at how some are getting hyped about Wilder/Povetkin when Povetkin was badly beaten by old Wladimir who i dont think personally would have got past 5 rounds against prime L Lewis. Still we will never know with that one

Not quite. There were no other fighters of the level of Froch, Kessler, Bute, etc. during Calzaghe's reign.
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Eubank was greater than all of them. Ottke was greater also. Fighters like Mitchell were beating fighters like F Liles who many rated and I think would favour in some of those battles. You mention this but how do you put Butes resume above say Mitchells, Reids or Woodhalls? Frochs best wins are either faded Kessler a faded fighter or Bute who many are saying was never tested

Not until Kessler came along. Calzaghe, much like Ward, showed that he was a level above those guys.

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They did, but Calzaghe was doing it against undefeated prime fighters and Ward has been doing it against already beaten fighters

That's why it was a strong division. You had a bunch of world class figthers battling it out for divisional supremacy. When Calzaghe was around, none of those guys were good enough to really challenge a world class operator like him

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Look at the resumes of Reid, Woodhall, Eubank, Mitchell to name a few and you may think otherwise and consider Sheika to get a shot at Calzaghe had to beat prime SMW G Johnson, where as Froch to get a shot at Ward had to beat faded, boiled down G Johnson, which once again shows how the division may be more known but wasnt greater
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des3995 · Nov 11, 2015

bailey said:

Consider faded Kessler beat Froch and then try and tell me its better than when you had undefeated Calzaghe, undefeated prime Kessler, undefeated Lacy, 3 time champ Beyer to name a few and not including fighters who although faded like Reid were able to beat fighters clearly like Magee who went on to push Froch and Bute, add Mundine who was around. Consider also that some fighters who beat prime G Johnson at SMW were not top 10, yet Johnson himself was top 10 at the time you note, which should tell you enough when you consider it.
You note faded Kessler a few years ago but dont note he had been around some years previously.
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Are you saying Kessler was faded the moment he lost to Calzaghe? He wasn't suddenly less of a fighter. This idea of a loss means the guy has somehow lost his ability is ridiculous. He wasn't as good as Calzaghe, he wasn't as good as Ward, and he was on par with Froch. Kessler was a good champ, and a fan fave, but his resume was never great. He found his level, and he was very consistent throughout his career. He had what is by FAR his best career win after losing to both Calzaghe and Ward, so how faded could he have been?

Anyway, yes, that era was clearly better. You're letting your Calzaghe bias obscure your vision if you think any SMW era Calzaghe fought in was better than 2009-2012. If Lacy is what your argument hinges on, it's done. That said, the Calzaghe/Kessler/Lacy era was stronger than the late 90's - early 00's. At no point did any of the eras have an approximation of the 4 top world class guys that 09-12 had.

Who cares if Magee went on to "challenge" Bute.........Was it indicative of a previous or future era because Pete Manfredo challenged Calzaghe? Of course not.

The division was more well known due to a competition and opened up to more American fans due to Ward winning a title, as many american SMWs hadnt been as successful. You have to remember there became an interest when Lacy appeared.
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That's overstated. Lacy was ok, and lots of people picked him to win over Calzaghe simply because of the level of competition Calzaghe had been fighting. Despite his long wbo title reign, he was still largely unproven. Lacy was a level or 2 below the best. He was a decent fighter in that era, but had no great wins and ran into a great fighter who tore him up. Both guys were stepping up. One guy proved he was head and shoulders better. However, the idea that all of a sudden SMW got hot because of Jeff Lacy? Sorry, but that isn't how it works. Lacy was never all that big of a deal here. He was an up and comer who got thoroughly outclassed and derailed by a far better fighter.

Guess we will have to differ on that one. I think Froch won but if you dont think Froch struggled look at the official scorecards, listen to the commentary and some of the threads that appeared on ESB. I guess people see different things
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The cards were closer than they should have been. Froch was doing some shoe-shining that turned some people off, and was retreating, but he won fairly comfortably. I wanted Glen to win, and thought he could do it. Could be my memory is off.

I agree there were some weak challenges, but some were not weak, but the opponents were not as known. There are also weak challenges now but due to the division being known more and a bit more hype it is not as realised when it does happen.
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There are weak challenges now, as the division is more barren than it has been in years. Stands to reason. Almost all the good fighters have evacuated it in recent years for one way or the other. There happens to be a couple of Americans in the top 10. Nobody still cares.

Still many that didnt cut it in the previous era were either able to go on in the next or their victims were able to go on, which is the main point
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Who? Bika? Bika was always basically a gatekeeper. He was green when Calzaghe fought him(had he even beaten Jaidon Codrington at that point?). He was able to win a title off of Periban, which proves exactly nothing. Other than that B and C level guys sometimes snag titles.

Think Veit did a fair bit more than Brinkley. You are making out Veit is one of the weak challenges but if you go to the era you mentioned, Veit had a better resume than many in the top 10 at that time and still does in many cases, which makes it seem like when a division is more known.
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Who was Veit fighting to amass that stellar 40-0 record? Nobody. The industry thought so much of his gaudy record that he couldn't even crack the top 10 of his division by any reputable standard. Who rated him other than the alphabet org of his choice?

Look at how I mentioned hype and even matched fights can fool people and think at how some are getting hyped about Wilder/Povetkin when Povetkin was badly beaten by old Wladimir who i dont think personally would have got past 5 rounds against prime L Lewis. Still we will never know with that one
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The point again?

Are you saying that because Bika and Anthony Dirrell, or Badou Jack are fighting evenly matched fights that no one can see the difference between them and the top guys of yesteryear?

Eubank was greater than all of them. Ottke was greater also. Fighters like Mitchell were beating fighters like F Liles who many rated and I think would favour in some of those battles. You mention this but how do you put Butes resume above say Mitchells, Reids or Woodhalls? Frochs best wins are either faded Kessler a faded fighter or Bute who many are saying was never tested
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Other than Eubank, do you think any of those guys would beat Froch, Kessler or Bute? And Eubank was done in the SMW division by the time Calzaghe fought him.

Ottke? Is there anything to be said? The guy could have had any # of losses had he fought anywhere but where he did. You think he would have faired well in recent times?

Mitchell was among the better fighters in a bad era. Pretty much says it all. Wasn't Liles retired and making a comeback when he fought Mitchell? Anyway, Mitchell was American, where was the rah-rah then you'd expect from the US that suddenly manifested years later and caused an entire nation to recognize a division?

Either way, again, this is ALL indicative of a weak era. We aren't talking guys who had a glimpse of fleeting success in those eras, they were perennial contenders.

Bute was tested against Froch. He lost. He also fought some of the fighters and same types of fighters as Calzaghe did, and hammered them.

They did, but Calzaghe was doing it against undefeated prime fighters and Ward has been doing it against already beaten fighters
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Undefeated doesn't mean prime. Big difference. The only "prime undefeated" fighters that Calzaghe beat that really matter are Kessler and Lacy. Who are the others?

Look at the resumes of Reid, Woodhall, Eubank, Mitchell to name a few and you may think otherwise and consider Sheika to get a shot at Calzaghe had to beat prime SMW G Johnson, where as Froch to get a shot at Ward had to beat faded, boiled down G Johnson, which once again shows how the division may be more known but wasnt greater
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Prime SMW Glen Johnson? You've gone on and on about how Johnson was a nobody as a SMW. I love Glen Johnson, but he is the very definition of a journeyman. He had a few great wins at LHW that forever made me a fan, but other than that his career is defined mainly by longevity, and many robberies and losses.
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mirkofilipovic · Aug 23, 2016

Damn

Uppercut_Artist · Aug 23, 2016

One year later, and he's still as much a nobody as 365 days ago. :yep

Boxing fan 75 · Aug 24, 2016

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

Quillin and Lee are clearly the best in the division, so why is Golovkin busy chasing fights he has no chance of making like Froch and Mayweather?

I left Bute off the list because IMHO he is not and has never been a top elite but a pretender who enjoyed the same type of undeserved hype as Golovkin is now enjoying.
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"Quillin and Lee are clearly the best in the division"
Great work on that one uppercut! "Clearly" an expert of the talent in the middleweight division.

Uppercut_Artist · Aug 24, 2016

Boxing fan 75 said: ↑

"Quillin and Lee are clearly the best in the division"
Great work on that one uppercut! "Clearly" an expert of the talent in the middleweight division.
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I'll be proved right soon when Quillin makes a comeback and beats Jacobs in the rematch.
Jacobs got lucky in the 1st fight and caught Quillin cold with a lucky shot. That's boxing.

Liquid Fire · Feb 21, 2017

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

Quillin and Lee are clearly the best in the division
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Hence Jacobs must be the best now then?

Golovkin beats Jacobs makes him what?

Good one OP

Liquid Fire · Feb 21, 2017

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

I'll be proved right soon when Quillin makes a comeback and beats Jacobs in the rematch.
Jacobs got lucky in the 1st fight and caught Quillin cold with a lucky shot. That's boxing.
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Roughly translated Quillin got KTFO!

Odins beard · Feb 21, 2017

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

In his impressive career Carl Froch has faced the absolute top shelf of competition.

-Andre Dirrell
-Jermain Taylor
-Jean Pascal
-Glen Johnson
-Andre Ward
-Arthur Abrabam
-Mikkel Kessler

and he called out Joe Calzaghe but poor Joe ducked him.

So who is this Gennady Golovkin who has recently faced yet another nobody in David Lumieux in his first PPV event that failed miserably because no one wants to pay good money to watch two b-level fighters engage?

When will Little g dare to face the same top level opponents that Carl Froch and Andre Ward have made their careers in facing?

Little g is so busy ducking top opponents like Lara, BHOP, and Ward while lamely calling out fights he doesn't deserve with Froch and Mayweather that he ignores the fact that he has yet to face the MW best champions and contenders such as Peter Quillin, Andy Lee, Daniel Jacobs, or even Sam Soliman.
I thought his goal was to clean out the division and claim undisputed status, but how can he accomplish this by only fighting the bottom of the barrel competition?

Until GiGi starts fighting top level opponents he will remain a nobody in the sport and remain more hype than substance. :yep
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Golovkin is a no body yet here you are 18 months on still posting about him....

theanatolian · Feb 21, 2017

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

I'll be proved right soon when Quillin makes a comeback and beats Jacobs in the rematch.
Jacobs got lucky in the 1st fight and caught Quillin cold with a lucky shot. That's boxing.
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Quillin doesn't want that work again. Jacobs' explosiveness, handspeed and power in both hands is too much for him.

Uppercut_Artist · Feb 21, 2017

Two years later and I am still proven right.

Odins beard · Feb 21, 2017

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

Two years later and I am still proven right.
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2 years later you are still obsessed with in your own words a "nobody".....

Now what does that say about you?

Liquid Fire · Feb 21, 2017

Odins beard said: ↑

2 years later you are still obsessed with in your own words a "nobody".....

Now what does that say about you?
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ThatsRight11 · Feb 21, 2017

Uppercut_Artist said: ↑

One year later, and he's still as much a nobody as 365 days ago. :yep
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ggg is one of the biggest name's in boxing

ThatsRight11 · Feb 21, 2017

mirkofilipovic said: ↑

Damn
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Dam the mods really clamped down on this troll, great to see him finally perma booted lol

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Sorry, but Golovkin is a lightweight NoBody, relatively

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Sorry, but Golovkin is a lightweight NoBody, relatively

bailey Loyal Member Full Member

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