James Toney. Under-rated?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q8DXiCr3-jE

In Toney's defense regarding PED's.

According to his doctor, he was low in testosterone and HGH before the Ruiz fight. He may have taken illegal PED's to bring the levels up. That doesn't make it right or legal, but somewhat understandable.

 

Agreed. But still for Duran his outings at 154 and above were very relevant for his rankings as an ATG. Had it not been for these outings
, Duran would be ranked more in the TOP 80 ATG area wheras he is now ranked as a TOP 10 ATG.

The outings at 190 and above catapulted Toney in the ATG rankings in my opinion.Had it not been for these outings , he would be a HOF.

 

My all time favorite fighter. Even with all the baggage,

So, yeah I think he's underrated

 

Oh dear. Really?
You misread my post; made a judgment of me, based on your error and the above is your justification?

OK. I think it's clear there's nothing more to be said to you on this subject.



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To clarify the PED situation for the Ruiz fight, one must be realized that Toney accepted the fight on short notice (about 4 weeks) and was grossly overweight (weighed about 270 pounds) and was coming off an injury.

Toney was the number one ranked by the WBA and could have just waited.But he did not.


Now I do not know whether Toney knowingly took Peds because he wws out of shape or whether it came from tge medicine for the injury.I just know proved superior to Ruiz and he was not in great shape.His punch output was not significant and his body looked overweight.

 

Hmmm, my best guess is that he roided to get up to the 190-200 lbs of solid muscle he after all reached.

Steroids have probably been used in plenty of the weight jumping in recent decades. After all it has become much more common during the age of steroids.

Still impressed with what guys like Pac and Toney has accomplished, though.

 

I should be able to live with that.

 

When was james toney ever solid muscle?

 

Toney is one of the most sublimely skilled fighters of all time

 

The problem is that, having been caught, it places Toney's performance in doubt. No matter how lacklustre the show of both them was (Ruiz was dire). It quite probably enabled Toney to compete.

The bigger problem is that Toney was caught again and so it becomes harder to explain away as accidental. One can gloss-over the issue and assume 'everyone is doing it' (like Bokaj), make out it's ok - it's just one of those things - But, that doesn't really cut it when one is trying to make a case for Greatness of the particular boxer, who happens to have been proven a cheat.



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Heavyweight is one weight division. End of story.

 

Well i sure wasn't talking about a 2yo Tyson, or a 2003 Tyson. Next time i will spell out even the little things.

 

You seem extremely keen to attack Toney from every angle you can.

Rather than debate the merits of his heavyweight opposition, which is obviously going to be sliced and diced to the hilt i will just put forth the Rings end of year Heavyweight ratings that concern him. These are of course a very respected reference.

Here is where Toney sat overall -

2003 - 6
2004 - 5
2005 - 3
2006 - 4

So he's inside the top 6 for 4 straight years. An ex middleweight.

That sums it up for Toney's efforts at Heavyweight for me.

 

He beat Rahman the second time imo.

 

He tested positive in the Danny Batcheder fight too.
To pass a regular test at these fights is pretty easy, even for guys using.
He was almost certainly juiced for all his heavyweight fights.