Was Johnson Close to Defeat in the Flynn Rematch ...

Who were the reporters? Very interesting. If Johnson was indeed tiring ( They fought in Las Vegas in July, outdoors ), it could explain his excessive clinching and lower punch output.

Johnson had never won a fight past 15 rounds since 1904. And he lost the 20 round fight to Hart, doing very little in rounds 11-20

With 45 rounds scheduled, if Johnson was indeed tired, he could have lost to what history views as a very weak title challenger.

 

Is this thread a joke? Johnson kicked the **** out of Flynn and toyed with him.


And you have to love the clown Mendoza once again trotting out his tried and true nonsense of Johnson getting TKOd in an exhibition bout.

How many times have I had to chase you out of a thread for making that asinine comment with this:

[url]http://i1184.photobucket.com/albums/z335/klompton/smithrecountsdroppingjohnson.jpg[/url]

 

Who were the reporters? Very interesting. If Johnson was indeed tiring ( They fought in Las Vegas in July, outdoors ), it could explain his excessive clinching and lower punch output.

Johnson had never won a fight past 15 rounds since 1904. And he lost the 20 round fight to Hart, doing very little in rounds 11-20

With 45 rounds scheduled, if Johnson was indeed tired, he could have lost to what history views as a very weak title challenger.

 

Suggest you watch the fight. Flynn was getting killed.

 

I didn't say Johnson was tiring. They thought both were strong enough to continue. If I remember correctly, W. Naughton, Otto Floto, John I. Day, maybe some others, I don't have time to look at sources now.

 

Hey, K-man, didn't you tell us Ketchel was more like 150 pounds in 1909 for his match vs. Johnson? You're very set in your ways. Don't be so quick to dismiss information you might not be aware of. It's a weakness of yours whether you realize it or not, and I think your one of the best-researched guy here on certain topics.

If there were reports there ( Primary ) who felt the outcome was in question had it gone on for many more rounds, who are you to say they are wrong?! Do you have all the rounds of this fight for a full 3 minutes?

Let's use the Gans-Nelson fight. That was over 40 rounds and I've seen you admit many felt Nelson was coming and Gans was tiring. But it was a DQ, so Gans won it.

So why can't the same apply here as they are in the heat of the desert in July with 45 scheduled rounds and primary sources saying Johnson was tiring?

 

Also there was no excessive clinching. This was a very typical Johnson fight. Brawler trying to get in close. Sometimes Johnson keep him at bey while other times he lets the brawler in close while controlling their attack. Johnson would place his gloved hands to the side/back of his opponents arms. The opponent could punch but all leverage was taken out of the blows. Flynn kept screaming at the ref that Johnson was holding but the ref would hear nothing of it. He would say later that "JOHNSON WAS NOT HOLDING. FLYNN WAS ALWAYS FREE TO PUNCH."

 

Perry,

How much footage is there in the film you saw? 10 minutes, 15 minutes, 20 minutes? Johnson at times was doing a bit more than holding.

 

W.W. Naughton
That Johnson had scored the most punches and had brought the most blood was something that could not be denied, but to say he looked a winner at the time of the interference is a different matter. It was the opinion of the majority of the spectators that if Flynn could have kept his temper and fought cleanly he could have worn Johnson down.


Sandy Griswold
Jack Johnson is a great fighter, but luckier than he is great. After being battered in the fiercest and most merciless style for nine rounds this afternoon, he was awarded a victory over Jim Flynn simply because Referee Ed Smith lacked the perspiculty to distinguish between the manner and mode of fouling both men adopted early in the blood fray. He considered the offending of the awful white demon from Pueblo the most flagrant, and for this reason gave the fight to the black, but not on account of his fouling, but because the men had agreed that he should give the man whom he thought had the better of it on the occasion of any interference by the officers of the law or otherwise.

This occurred after one minute and ten seconds in the ninth round, when both men were swathed in gore and fighting like raging beasts in an inferno.
...
Yet one was as guilty as the other, and as far as the breaking of the Queensberry code was concerned, both were equally culpable. The trouble was Flynn's offense was both the most palpable and the most damaging, as he had been shaded in a majority of the rounds and had shed the most of life's red fluid. Mr. Smith considered his course justifiable in awarding the verdict to Johnson when Captain Fornoff of the mounted rangers, with several of his wild and wooly men, with hands on their big guns, leaped up over the press chairs and into the arena and called a halt.

My! Oh my! What a glorious intervention that was to Jack Johnson. What a marvelous dispensation of providence in the very nick of time! With his massive black jaw golterous and awry from the terrific overhand left crashes Flynn had landed on it, with his mouth exuding clots of thidck and agglutinative blood and his stomach hammered back flat against his vertebrae, Edward Smith failed to see that he was a rumbling shell of his former manhood and in a few more rounds would have been beaten stiff. But Flynn, with his split and fractured nose, his face a mask of smeary gore and his whole torso and upper limbs swathed as in a scarlet sweater, his eyes, wild, fierce and terrible, with the ravages of hatred, vindictiveness and victory but his form upright, rigorous and replete with savage life and earnestness, was the beaten man and according to the compact entered into before the fight, was entitled to all the glory of being denominated as the victorious winner.

While it was undoubtedly a mistake of Smith's it was certainly as he and many others saw it, but a greater mistake of Flynn's. With absolute victory within his grasp, he, in his hatred and passion, tossed it away. There was no call for his repeated butting the negro under the chin, he was winning with most astounding rapidity as it was, and he could well afford to have withstood the short sightedness of the referee, until, in a round or two more, he would have had Jack Johnson, the black champion of the world, either unconscious or groveling at his feet.


T.S. Andrews
These yells had no effect on Johnson. The black even pushed out his stomach at times for Flynn to hit at, just to show the white what little chance he had when Johnson wanted to block him. Yet Flynn did hurt Johnson at times and in a long fight would have had a splendid chance.
...
Flynn made the same mistake that Tommy Burns did in Australia. He tried to carry the fight to Johnson and rough it--just what the colored man wanted. Flynn had one chance and that was to act on the defensive and carry the fight along fifteen or twenty rounds to learn whether Jack could stand the pace.
...
It was a case of the matador toying with the bull, for Johnson certainly toyed with Flynn. There is no denying that Flynn was as strong as a young bull and full of fight, but that is all the more reason why he should have reserved his strength and played to wear down the big fellow.

 

Otto Floto
There is just a slight chance that destiny knocked at the door of Jim Flynn yesterday afternoon and received a cruel blow that swept away all the chances Jim Flynn will ever have of becoming the world's heavyweight champion. Flynn's foul tactics and overofficiousness on the part of Captain Fornoff spoiled what probably would have given the white man an excellent opportunity to wear the crown of supremacy in the realm of fistiana.

Both Johnson and Flynn violated the rules on the Queensberry code. Flynn probably to a greater extent than Johnson. To have disqualified one would have been an injustice unless the other also received the same deal. Johnson continually held and hit his opponent. Flynn made use of his "bean" in a fashion that left no doubt of his intentions.
...
When the battle was stopped both men were strong and able to continue for some rounds further. Neither had been punished to any great extent. The cut on Flynn's nose bled profusely, but outside of that he was absolutely uninjured.

Probably the inexperience of Captain Fornoff in such matters was responsible for his actions. The blood may have frightened him to a degree quite unnecessary to call for the stopping of the battle. Mind, I don't want to be understood as saying that Flynn would have beaten Johnson, but his chances to score brackets were of the best at the time the fight was stopped. Johnson is still a great champion. He is cunning and shrewd and manages to cover up his transgressions of the rules in a manner that is surprising. But he is not the Jack Johnson of two years ago. He is not the formidable fighting machine that set the world wondering at Reno.


John I. Day
For his three months of training all Jim Flynn has to show is a badly battered face surrounding a broken nose. He did not even make a friend by the showing he gave today. Still there were some, and among them such a good judge of fights and fighters as Spider Kelly, who declared that had the fight been allowed to go along to a more natural ending instead of being murdered so early, the "white hope" might finally have worn the worried negro to the canvas.

It is true that Johnson showed signs of punishment and long before the wind-up the smile had been abandoned. Though battered, cut and bloody, the white man was at all times willing, and undoubtedly he did land some telling blows in the midriffs of the champion. Never before has Johnson been known to complain to the referee that he was getting the worst of the milling. Yet in the sixth, seventh and eighth rounds he had complaints to make.

 

Speaking authoritively of a book he hasn't read.lol. Klompton has once again demolished you on the Smith saga.but you'll repeat is soon enough.Hater's hate, it's what you do!

 

LOL, did you read it? Johnson was down. It wasn't even Smith's best shot and his manager stepped in to stop it. Ownage again...

Now check what Seyna said. WOW.

PS: Even you know the 77" reach for Johnson is utter BS. Maybe one bad source said it, but 15 others say 74" or less. Logic should rule here.

 

There are plenty in Pollack's book.

 

I read it the first time Klompton posted it when he humiliated you.
The mystery is how someone can be so comprehensively schooled can corrected yet still be eager to repeat the same lies over ,and over again.
They say God loves a trier , but I doubt he loves a liar. Keep that hate coming Klan Man!

 

You're such a pig headed racists buffon. Good lord, read what was posted by Klompton. Johnson's manager Geroge Little stepped between them after Johnson was floored! He was protecting his man! Smith wanted to continue.

That's what I said before. DUH. NY Times says Johnson saw stars. Furthermore, Smith said it wasn't his hardest punch, yet look at the effect it had.

As Smith says In the book in this corner " And he never forgot that " referring to the punch.