Was Carlos Monzon overrated?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by GK BOX, Sep 14, 2016.


  1. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Rumors have it that a TV station in Argentina has some footage of Briscoe vs Monzon I, but has never made it to the General Public for home sales. But that rumor has been around for a long, long time.
     
  2. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Monzon was very vulnerable to speed and elusive fighters. He got a home town decision over an old Griffith in their rematch. He looked bad for a few rounds against blown up lightweight , another old guy named Napoles. Styles make fights. Toney was an exceptional fighter. He was lightning fast, he was incredible on defense, he had powder and an all time great chin. I think he gives Monzon a world of trouble. Your trying to make him out to be a poor fighter. You're wrong.
     
  3. BundiniBlack

    BundiniBlack Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Yeah you need to watch those fights again. Napoles(who was the favorite btw) landed a couple good counters in the first round and after Monzon realized Napoles couldn't hurt him it was completely domination.

    The Griffth rematch was close but the best you could have it was a draw
     
  4. Seamus

    Seamus Proud Kulak Full Member

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    Congratulations. You were wrong on almost every sentence in that post.

    How was a fight in Monaco a Monzon hometown decision? Griffith fought his previous two fights in France and trained in France. You had an Italian, German and French ref. And there is no way that Griffth, a whopping 4 years older than Monzon, won that fight.

    He destroyed Napoles, a guy all of two years older than Carlos, who had just beaten Clyde Grey and KO'd Hegemon Lewis in his very next fight. Monzon was the only man to stop Napoles outright.

    At 160, Toney struggled with Dave Tiberi and Sanderline Williams. He deserved the L against Tiberi. He was lucky to beat Reggie Johnson by SD and got decked hard. He drew with a past prime McCallum. He made 6 defenses of a split belt that included 1 draw and 1 robbery.

    I am a big Toney fan but he was not a great middleweight. His best fights were at 168, 175 and 190. The dude was a natural 200 pound footballer in high school. 160 was just too low.
     
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  5. Mod-Mania

    Mod-Mania Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Not at all, he's the second best MW of all time on my list behind SRR.
     
  6. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    At his best only Robinson,Greb or Hagler were on his level at 160 lbs.
     
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  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Monzon gave Napoles a beating.

    "Carlos Monzon successfully defended his world middleweight title Saturday by beating welterweight champion Jose Napoles. The Argentine champion, using a 5 inch reach advantage and the power behind a 6 3/4 pound weight edge, pummeled Napoles viciously in the 5th and 6th rounds, then won the bout when the Cuban-born challenger who fights out of Mexico City failed to answer the bell for the 7th round of the scheduled 15 round fight. Napoles apeared unable to seriously threaten Monzon. It was only in the 1st round when he slipped a left jab through Monzon's guard and twice scored with looping rights to the head that Napoles looked like he might seriously challenge Monzon." -Associated Press"

    I don't think Toney did much at middleweight.
     
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  8. Cecil

    Cecil Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I've seen this fight.
    It was largely one sided.
     
  9. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Overrated from a longevity and accomplishment standpoint? No way.

    My criticism of Monzon is he never beat any big middles with ability better than say, Benvenuti who retired shortly after facing Monzon, and was likely on the decline.

    Some of his best wins are vs. shorter fighters who started out below middleweight or vs. aging fighters on the decline. Size and style wise, Monzon had the advantage. Monzon wasn't very fast and did not have a big punch.

    He was a grinder type with good stamina, skills, and a chin. Head to head, I wonder how he would do vs. the best middles of all time that were either bigger punchers or the faster / more skilled counter guys.

    IMO, Monzon retired at the perfect time for him.

    I think fighters like Roy Jones, James Toney, or Hopkins might beat Monzon, and none of those guys sniff top 5 all time at middleweight.

    I also think GGG hits too hard and would stop him in an epic war.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    HE Grant: " Monzon was very vulnerable to speed and elusive fighters. He got a home town decision over an old Griffith in their rematch. He looked bad for a few rounds against blown up lightweight , another old guy named Napoles. Styles make fights. Toney was an exceptional fighter. He was lightning fast, he was incredible on defense, he had powder and an all time great chin. I think he gives Monzon a world of trouble. Your trying to make him out to be a poor fighter. You're wrong. "


    I agree with HE. Monzon was vulnerable to speed and elusive fighters. Napoles ( 5'7"1/2 inches tall ) was a blown up welter, who didn't even weigh past the jr middleweight limit when he fought Monzon.

    I have not see Griffith vs. Monzon in the re-match, but if Monzon should have lost it, you have to wonder a bit as Griffith was very short ( 5'7 1/2 ) and older at age 35.

    Toney, when focused, was excellent. I agree, he's got the speed and style to give Monzon trouble and a good chin to match.
     
  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    I disagree with you often and that is nothing new .. if you bother to watch the first four rounds of the Naples fight Jose at 35 was fighting a very effective fight , taking it to Monzon as the announcers make note of .. Carlos was just way too big against a natural light weight who was 35 .. once Naples cut it was over ..

    You can say there was no way Griffith won the second fight but many others disagree .. again, Manzon fighting an small, old fighter ..

    Monzon was a monster , no doubt .. I just think bigger, fast, slick fighters match up well against him .. and I do like your boy Toney over him ..
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Griffith was the number one contender, it wasn't like he was a gimme fight. The officials in the 2nd Griffith fight were pretty much in line.

     
  13. Longhhorn71

    Longhhorn71 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Rodrigo Valdez 2nd fight might be a good measure of the modern day MW's vs Monzon. Valdez had Gil Clancy in his corner (after Angie Dundee w Napoles had given it his best shot). Plus, the Monzon fights were at the 15 round limit which favor a "grinder" type fighter like Monzon.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
  14. Bummy Davis

    Bummy Davis Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Monzon was a great 160lber, he reminded me of Salvatore Sanchez in the way where he put out what he needed to in some fights but look great in other fights. Monzon like Hagler was a natural 160lb fighter, I think GGG also may stay in the 160lb space. He is rated top 5 middleweight and I think that is correct
     
  15. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    We know he won .. just that many felt he didn't and it was a poor performance against an old, blown up welterweight .. the fact that he was number one reflects on the division at the time ..