When was Hart hit by Valdes? Find one list of punchers that has Valdes anywhere in it! Powell was a third/4th-rater who ended up minding the door of the Embassy Club as I recall , he was a sparring partner for Cooper and a bit player in a few UK films.Valdes list of stoppage victims is decidedly underwhelming.
I agree with you. But you asked me to name somebody who thought Valdes was a world beater and here it is. Go to 4.47 of this clip. https://m.youtube.com/index?desktop_uri=/&gl=GB#/watch?v=zK5KEObP4fQ
The way it would have differed is the heavyweights bigger than Tyson and Holyfeild would have fought among themselves at Superheavyweight. The prestige would have remained at "heavyweight" with no need for a cruiserweight no man's land. Much research proves that many fighters were built up to beyond 228 anyway.
Let's ignore the Shkor comment for what it was .. Valdez was not that great by any means but he was experienced, had power although some here are overrating it and would have given Marciano a stylistic match up he never had as a pro against a serious contender .. I don't see Nino winning but it would have been interesting ..
I think Marciano beating Valdes would only enhance Archie Moore's legacy at Heavyweight rather than Rocky. Especially if Rocky fought Nino at the expense of Archie Moore. Nobody then or now thought Rocky could lose to either of Bob Baker or Nino Valdes. So many in fact thought neither man was as great a test as Moore had been that it's pretty much why Rocky retired. Both Nino and Baker were modern sized heavyweights and both were very good fighters ...yet at that time, as good and as big as they were, that type of fighter was seen as precisely the kind that stood absolutely no chance against Rocky.
The hell? I can't state an opinion without being accused of hero worship? Want me to follow you into every thread and give you the same treatment every time you give an opinion? I would love to elaborate more on my post, and explain why I think he's the best puncher in the group, but you don't really care about that do you? So instead I'll just say go f*ck yourself.
Marciano isn't popular with McVey I like Rocky too, but these guys are not only much much bigger but also probably better than 90% of the guys Marciano fought. I used to think Rocky would have a good chance against somebody like Wlad, and there's an enormous thread that I participated in to that effect years ago. But the more I think about it the more it seems to me that if they resort to spoiling tactics - and some of these guys are certaily spoilers, using their size to bully the smaller guys and break their backs - Marciano would have a hard time winning, all things being equal. Where ol Mc is slightly biased himself is in his thought that Dempsey could pull it off where Rocky couldn't. Frankly I think their chances against that lineup are about equal ... that being, slim.
This is a fair point but one I find lends more to modern rules, modern tactics, training, diet and modern equipment. Much of what made these guys was simply not available back in the 1950s. It's outside of the rules anyway. Added weight simply was not functional strength before. This was because what was gained in size was shown to produce a loss in speed and pace. It was too hard to compete and carry extra weight back then to weigh so much without modern training and dieting methods. This is why the height to weight ratio of the majority of elite heavyweights for the last 30 years is seen as so artificially high that (to this day) it is seen as unhealthy and not meeting the weight requirements of the US army.
Good points. Rocky could find himself in some tough spots if Lewis or Wlad lean on him a lot in the clinches. On the other side of the coin, Rocky was very comfortable on the inside. And when Lewis and Wlad intensely lean on their opponents, usually their bodies are exposed. It works wonders on your average opponent, but I wonder if it would also work on an elite inside fighter. Rocky's crouch is going to be frustrating to a tall SHW. Unlike Frazier, Rocky crouches, and leans away. His head is not always in the front and middle, where Fraziers often was. A guy like Wlad has to reach far and extend himself to jab Rocky in his crouch. So Wlad will constantly have to reach to tag Rocky, basically leaving his body towering over an explosive dynamite of a puncher in a perfectly coiled positon. I can picture Rocky's overhand right out of the crouch to be an incredibly dangerous punch against the tall SHWs. He could cover tremendous distance and height with that punch, with crazy power. Bigger guys punch slower. Rocky could use the overhand right to counter some of these guys' jabs. As soon as he attempts one of these, and Wlad has to pull back hard to dodge one, it would instantly click for everyone that Rocky is a live one. The elite punchers can overcome difficult size advantages. Golovkin knocks out cruisers in sparring. Some of his partners say he hits as hard as a heavyweight, and he's only 160lb. Imagine what an 185lb trimmed elite puncher could do. A silly argument made by people like McVey, is that because Rocky didn't KO everyone in under 5 rounds, he's not that great of a puncher. Yet, there is no great puncher who ever lived who has ever done that. Tyson, Louis, Foreman, you name em. So where exactly is the bar? Rocky did have a perfect record, with an incredible KO percentage. He was the only person to knock Louis out cold. He knocked out Walcott twice, once in the first round. He knocked out Charles twice, once with a split nose. He knocked out Moore, Cockell, Matthews, La Starza...what more can you ask for? He did everything you can ask with who was in front of him. He indeed doesn't have that one win like Frazier does. Which is just a product of his time. But besides that "one win," he convincingly defeated solid opposition.
A tiny facefirst attrition puncher with limited defensive skills and tender skin will never fare well against elite superheavies. It's that simple. Now, if this is purely fantasy fiction (more than just supposition based on experience and results), go ahead and ignore the realities of the sport.
If Golovkin was a 30's fighter, they would call every description of him fantasy. "He punched as hard as a heavyweight? Ha! Thats just nostalgia folks..."