Can I Reasonably Omit Marciano& Frazier From My Ten ?

I don't think we want to go down the road of using Richard Dunn and Alfredo Evangelista as examples of contenders who earned shots at the title.

I think they are better suited to serve as examples of a throwback from an earlier time in which Champions in boxers as a whole were more active and fought often enough that they could include some softer touches in their schedule.

 

My point is in tough eras champions still always fight guys like this. Cokkell was #2 contender because he beat Lastarza right after Rocky did.

 

Yes, and if C0ckell is being compared to Dunn and Evangelista that proves Marciano's era was weak.
C0ckell "deserved" his #2 ranking, but Evangelista and Dunn were incapable of rising that high in 1976-'77 which wasn't exactly a strong point in heavyweight history either (although a few years earlier had been).

 

LaStarza and C0ckell were pretty solid contenders.

Yes they might be among the weaker contenders who attained a top two ranking, but they definitely deserved their rankings.

The salient point is that Marciano kept fighting the most qualified contenders, and kept beating them decisively.

That makes it hard to argue against him on resume.

 

I think there are fighters we either have a personal dislike for whether it be style,size,flaws but I think 99 % of so-called experts have these guys in their top 10. I rate Marciano high in my top 3 and Frazier FOTC fight insures Frazier a high ranking unless you rate Ali low as well. It very hard to compare eras and say fighters could beat fighters and circumstances that did not exist in their era. I also dont subscribe to the notion that all fighter got better through the era's. Greatness in ones era is all we can go by and dominance is another factor anything else is guessing or speculation. Joe Louis is still my number 1...everyone has a personal bias against a certain fighter and you can tell by the energy they put into undermining their accomplishments. I may have a few Biases against certain fighters myself but it does not mean i am correct It means I have an opinion about it

 

Louis and Ali should be the clear 1 and 2 with the amount of top 10 contenders they beat.
Both around 30 which is crazy

 

Most boxing fans would find the fact that they were historically unimpressive heavyweight contenders to be far more salient than whether or not they earned their high rankings.

 

The problem then, is what are you ranking them on?

If you are evaluating resumes, then you have to at least acknowledge them as contenders who attained a high ranking, even is the rest of their careers were unimpressive.

When you start to ask question about who would have beaten who, you are no longer ranking them on resume, you are ranking them on head to head.

 

Why not, Turpin did!

 

Funny thing is GGG is closer in size to Marciano than Rocky is to some of these heavyweights in the top 10....

 

I contend that no boxer is prime at 40 .

 

Lastarza didn't really rate a title shot anyway he got one on the basis of their split decision fight before Marciano became champion Lastarza was a protected fighter, both he and C*ckell were poor contenders.imo.

 

Lastarza did rate a title shot, we have been through all this before. He beat Dan Bucceroni and Rex Layne and the NBA had nominated Roland the most logical contender to Marcianos title that summer. Imagine if Rocky then ducked Roland!

An interesting tidbit to the Marciano v Lastarza title fight at the Polo grounds is that a young muscular 27-0 knockout sensation appeared on the card as a possible future opponent for the winner of the title fight,, but he was destroyed by a four round novice of less than 10 fights. The defeated prospect was called Cleveland Big Cat Williams!

 

Ok, but do you accept that some are better than they were at a younger age?

 

Lastarza had lost to 14-9-2 light heavyweight journeyman Rocky Jones less than a year before challenging Marciano and Jones floored him! Bucceroni was an in and outer who had beaten Lastarza a few months earlier .Now look up Bucceroni's record and tell me how he got rated in the top ten because apart from Lastarza there is nobody on his record except for lhvy Bob Murphy !Lastarza got a split decison over a Layne who was never the same after fighting Marciano ,it was a poor era, and they were poor contenders.