Marvin Hagler NOT Top 10 All Time @160lbs

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Frankel, Oct 1, 2016.


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  1. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    Take away from his resume, the Thomas Hearns victory. Due to Hearns breaking his famous right-hand in the opening round, and what does he have left?.. A close one-point, decision win over an old former 135lb Champion. A landslide, humiliating points defeat to a former champion, who was having only his second fight in over 5 years... Does he really make the list of All Time Great Middleweights?

    Sugar Ray Robinson
    Harry Greb
    Sam Langford
    Stanley Ketchel
    Carlos Monzon
    Jake LaMotta
    Marcel Cerdan
    Freddie Steele
    Gene Fullmer
    Tiger Flowers
    Bob Fitzsimmons
    Mickey Walker
    Ezzard Charles
    Roy Jones Jr.
    James Toney
    Bernard Hopkins
    Dick Tiger
     
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #1
  2. Saad54

    Saad54 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Troll alert

    Fullmer better than Hagler? GTFO. He beat a faded Robinson.

    Hearns only lost to Hagler because he broke his hand? GTFO

    Hagler beats Hearns 10/10 with resilence and power.
     
    Saad54, Oct 1, 2016
    Saad54, Oct 1, 2016
    #2
    joe brown likes this.
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Top four lock.
     
    McGrain, Oct 1, 2016
    McGrain, Oct 1, 2016
    #3
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  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    He beat plenty of good middleweights.

    I'm possibly among the biggest supporters of Marvin Hagler on this forum, I rate him above Ray Leonard and above Thomas Hearns "pound for pound / all-time" and almost on a par with Roberto Duran.

    But I do think it is reasonable to have a middleweight top 10 that excludes him, simply because the division is so deep historically.
     
    Unforgiven, Oct 1, 2016
    Unforgiven, Oct 1, 2016
    #4
    RankingBad, fists of fury and BCS8 like this.
  5. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    Hagler was a monster. At his best, the Minter bout, he was a very rare combination of skill, speed, power and contained fury. Giving others every benefit of the doubt he's got to be mid top ten. Likely higher.
     
    he grant, Oct 1, 2016
    he grant, Oct 1, 2016
    #5
  6. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    Fullmer would "murder" Hagler.. Fullmer was one of the strongest, most powerful middleweights in history. Your quote he beat a "faded Robinson" is laughable, it shows how very little knowledge you have, of boxing and its history. Gene Fullmer beat a very good 160lb version of Ray Robinson. Fullmer defeated many excellent 160lb champions and challengers, throughout his incredible career. Marvin Hagler brings nothing to the dance, in which to bother Gene Fullmer. Hagler at 5'7'' and lacking in punch-power, would be meeting the powerfullest fighter in his career in Fullmer. Gene defeated many fighters Ray Robinson struggled with, or lost fights too, during that incredible period of Middleweight history.

    Are you claiming Hearns NEVER broke his right hand in the opening round against Hagler?

    Hearns fought unbeaten James Shuler on Hagler vs Mugabi, co- main event card in Las Vegas. Hearns wanted a rematch with Hagler, due to him breaking his hand in their fight and him being No1 contender. Hagler wanted absolutely nothing to do with a Thomas Hearns rematch. Hagler only ever fought Class C fighters or men from the lighter weight classes. Mugabi (154lb) Antuofermo (154lb) Hamsho (154) Duran (135lb) Hearns (147lb) ... Hagler even struggled to beat most of them.
     
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #6
  7. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    Minter was lower level world champion, Not elite level.
     
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #7
  8. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    LOL.......
     
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #8
  9. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Trolling through the park.
     
    mcvey, Oct 1, 2016
    mcvey, Oct 1, 2016
    #9
  10. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    fullmer defeated some excellent champions and contenders. Most of whom are vastly superior to every fighter Hagler ever fought, with the exception of Leonard, Duran, Hearns (broken hand).

    Ray Robinson (twice)
    Dick Tiger (draw)
    Tiger Jones (twice)
    Rocky Castellani
    Florentino Fernandez
    Benny Peret (Brutal beating)
    Joey Giardello
    Carmen Basilio (twice)
    Spider Webb (twice)
    Gil Turner (twice)
    Edwardo Lausse
    Wilf Greaves
    Paul Pender
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #10
  11. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    no trolling here.. didn't you block me you claimed? after you could not answer any of my Trivia questions lol

    sour grapes eh lol
     
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #11
    frankenfrank likes this.
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Yes I blocked you , but I've been away on holiday,my grandson has been busy on the key board.

    Lausse beat Fullmer. Back on ignore.Troll.
     
    mcvey, Oct 1, 2016
    mcvey, Oct 1, 2016
    #12
  13. Frankel

    Frankel Active Member Full Member

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    Your grandson must have been reading my posts then and decided to take me off ignore :clapclap:

    Lausse vs Fullmer was one of the best fights of 1955
     
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    Frankel, Oct 1, 2016
    #13
    frankenfrank likes this.
  14. BCS8

    BCS8 VIP Member

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    I never really stopped to think about just how deep MW historically actually was. Those are some heavy duty names up there.

    Maybe what could give Hagler the edge over a lot of them is that he practically made his career at middleweight.

    Some of those other guys fought at heavier weights, whereas Hagler was never particularly big even as a MW.

    It's the first time that it struck me that Hagler might be argued not to make top 5. I mean, wtf?
     
    BCS8, Oct 1, 2016
    BCS8, Oct 1, 2016
    #14
  15. Man_Machine

    Man_Machine Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The Middleweight Division has a very rich and deep history and Hagler's place is well sealed within it; primarily due to the consistency of his career record.

    No surprise, really, when you consider what an all-round game Hagler possessed; both boxer and brawler; both southpaw and orthodox. I've seen and heard critics often citing his strategic failures (Antuofermo I; Duran; Leonard), as marks against him and, even if these points might well hold water, they aren't enough to take away from his overall presence in the Class. At his clinical best, Hagler was nigh on perfection.

    Other than Leonard, in his very last bout, he beat every man he ever faced; his KO percentage, over 67-fights, is also quite remarkable. Add to this that Hagler never looked like being KO'd in all that time and you have a strong argument to make in favor of him beating any Middleweight in history.

    Hagler is definitely Top-10 and most probably a Top-5 Middleweight of All Time.
     
    Man_Machine, Oct 1, 2016
    Man_Machine, Oct 1, 2016
    #15
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