Expert opinions on Liston vs Tyson

As the yrs go by Tyson gets more an more overrated.
I got Sonny

 

I respect your opinion

 

I tend to favor that monster Liston but if Tyson wins no surprise....maybe they both quit

 

I've been waiting for someone to say it....

And you did exactly that .

I was waiting for it .

That is always the argument people use to diminish and dismiss Sonny being the only man to ever overpower Big George .

"Well , Foreman was only 19 Sooo...... that does not mean much "

Let me simply say It does not matter how Young Foreman was , The fact that he says Liston is the only man to ever do that to him indicates that no other fighter was ever able to repeat what Liston did .

Big George admired Sonny Yes .

But that did not hold George back one bit in sparring . These 2 extraordinary men had intense sparring sessions .
Foreman took it to him every time .

"Sonny was the only man I could never back up " Foreman recalled years later " Id hit him with some monster shots and he'd just shake his head and say "No, son "

Prime 4 Prime - Liston stops Foreman in 9 rounds .

........................................................................

You are actually going to try and dismiss Sonny's devastating ATG Jab ??

Angelo Dundee and Rocky Marciano spoke highly and praised Listons jab .

Dundee personally witness Fighters teeth being shattered upon impact with Sonnys Jab .

Marciano compared getting hit with that jab is like running straight into a trailer truck .

Iron Mike himself was outmuscled and bullied by a former Cruiserweight who used to weigh only 186 pounds .

His name was Holyfield , perhaps you heard of him . In Both fights he pushed Tyson around with ease .

Faster and More athletic ? Absolutely

Tyson had that advantage over Liston .

Stronger ?? No way...

Liston was way more powerful than Tyson .

Earnie Shavers is the hardest Puncher , Not Tyson .

Prime 4 Prime - Liston TKOs Tyson in 7 .

 

Not at all.

 

Sonny had a great jab
https://streamable.com/8wn3

 

Tyson would doubt himself big time against Liston after a few rounds

 

I tend to agree here.

In a pure firefight there are not many that can hang with Tyson's explosive combination punching.

Liston has that jab but a comparitively poor defence. Tyson had the peekaboo style but no great jab. Frankly I don't think that the jab would be as big a factor as people think.

I could be wrong, but Tyson would want to take this inside and close, and I don't think Liston has the footwork to get away. I don't even think Liston would try to get away. The winner would be a mess, but I am pretty sure that the winner would be Tyson.

 

These two are the masters of intimidation. Who will out psyche who? This is truly fascinating.

Liston was an extremely composed guy. A hunter. Great jab that was actually an offensive jab but he also had a great punch selection inside.

The closest to Tyson that Sonny fought was Patterson. but Floyd was so out psyched when ever he fought Sonny that Floyd really did not perform either time. Even had Sonny fought a switched on Patterson, whilst comparable in style and speed Floyd really cannot compare to Tyson for power, durability and strength.

So who was closest to Liston that Tyson fought? Proberbly Alex Stewart and Frank Bruno.

Stewart was comparable to Patterson against Liston in that Tyson was able to capitalize against a guy unable to perform that night. Stewart, a good fighter in his own right, was so overwhelmed. so that comparison is no use.

Bruno, whilst bigger than Sonny, was unable to find room for his jab. Tyson effectively took away the jab and right hand because Bruno operates at a slower speed. Bruno still had a hook and was able to smother with his strength somewhat but the draining ordeal of containing Tyson sufficiently without the tools, space and time sapped him as much as the lead right hands and uppercuts.

Ruddock was not in my opinion an example of a simular fighter to Liston. He was a lot bigger, wide open and reckless one arm bandit much like Cleveland Williams only superior in every respect.

A lot is made of how Sonny dealt with Williams, but Williams never knocked out an elite fighter only guys everybody knocked out. Sonny beat better guys and so did Tyson. A lot better.

I think there is a lot more proof that Tyson took away the jab from a lot of taller longer guys than Liston. Truth Williams had a great jab. Biggs had a great jab. Bruno had a great jab. Holmes had a great had a great jab. The fact is Tysons countering skills, his slip game and his explosive switch of angles really discouraged the use of a long steady jab.

Douglas was able to time the sequence of Tysons head movement once he had bought the feint. But the ability and sophistication Buster showed in manoeuvring Tyson onto a double jab from a position where there was no room for Tyson to reach Douglas in retaliation was beyond anything I have seen Sonny attempt. Sonny was not that kind of fighter..and neither was Douglas ever again!

So potentially Tyson has the key here. He can take away the jab. He can punish Sonny and beat him to the draw, I am sure of that ..But! When Tyson had all of that prime speed and zest he was also a kid at heart. Albeit a dangerous kid but still a kid.

Here was youngster with a real speed edge. With a chambered psychopathic fury, Mike was able to fight from a programmed blue print whereby he would slip inside and bomb the opposition with paralyzing speed and a fast switch of angles that nobody could prepare for. The guy goes over.... And there was no plan B.

In his prime we never saw that Tyson (because he was so young) really was mature enough to instinctively trigger a plan B if something went wrong when the other guy had an answer for his blueprint. We never saw it with Tillis, with Douglas and later when he had matured we never saw it with Holyfeild... and he never got off the floor to win a fight did he?

So whilst Tyson has the tools, he has the pedigree and Tyson has beat bigger better fighters than Sonny Liston it all boils down to Sonny coming back against taking a pounding from a bigger fast elite guy than we ever saw him fight.

Getting hit from Tyson is a lot worse than getting hit by the Cleveland Williams one handed attack that gave Sonny a nose bleed. Tyson has two hands and twice the precision and angles to attack from.

So even though Sonny has a real seasoned punchers chance, I am making Tyson the favourite here for that reason.

For all Sonny's impressive power and variety I feel a lot of Sonny's legacy was possibly accentuated by fighting psyched out guys lighter than he was who were unable to make an impression on him. Yes Sonny also bombed out big guys like Valdes, Williams, Zech and DeJohn but they were Lou Saverse level.

The big powerhouse guys Sonny beat were not Ruddock, Bruno, Smith, BERBICK, Stewart, Golota even Nielsen level and I think that's the pedigree he needs to be measured against.

 

I dont know if we can say getting hit by Tyson was worse than getting hit by Williams .

Because lets be completely honest here how would you and me ever really know? LOL

Both were powerful men.

Both men had fast hands.

But Tyson definitely was faster than Williams.

Williams had the height , broader shoulders and longer reach (80 inch arms)

George Foreman would always repeat time and time Cleveland Williams was 1 of 3 hardest punchers hes ever encountered.


Both Sonny Liston and Joe Frazier also spoke very highly of his punching power.

Tyson had ferocious power himself that cant be denied.

Who was the superior puncher? Who had more knockout power?

Not one of us in here can truly answer that.

 

What did Frazier say?

 

Great post there Choklab.

 

whether Williams had long arms and broad shoulders will not disguise the fact that the big Cat did not last more than three or so rounds against a world class hitter himself. Satterfeild, Ali and Liston all bounced him around like a yoyo.

Whilst it is acceptable that everybody who shared a ring with Willams sensed his punching power the truth is this power never translated through the levels.

Williams never knocked out an elite fighter and film of his fight with Billy the Barber Daniels (at his prime) is completely underwhelming. Here is a man Karl mildenberger knocked out, yet the same Billy Daniels went 20 rounds with Williams and hurt him.

Liston beat punchers like Valdes and Williams but let's not forget we saw Whitehurst and Ali wobble Sonny as much as Williams did.

 

They've all got their bouts where they look below par.

Mildeenberger also gave Ali plenty of curry in their fight. Being a southpaw made him particularly awkward and it gave plenty of his opponents (good fighters too) no end of trouble.

Would you say Mildenberger exposed Daniels chin somewhat?

Williams was the only man to ever stop Ernie Terrell all the way up to Terrells last ever fight.

 

Young Ernie Terrell was a few fights away from finding his mojo when he lost first time around to Williams. I think Bethea and another unknown work horse already outpointed the youngster around the same time. Ernie won the rematch and went on to better things than Williams achieved.

The list of guys Tyson only ever knocked out or was the first guy to knock out is a lot more impressive than Cleveland Big Cat Williams thin pickings over live opponents.