Expert opinions on Liston vs Tyson

As stated, if you knew anything about Liston you'd know he was on the way down by the time he got his shot. You've gone into further depth trying to defend the stance. I stand by my original statement. I'm not even going to debate it.

 

Well that is a pity that you don't want to debate it because I really wanted to get to the bottom of who else it is who actually thinks Bruno, Ruddock and Golota were only average compared to Cleveland Big Cat Williams?

or that the guys the Big Cat knocked out were in the league of some of Tysons victims who knocked out the likes Douglas, Cooney and Witherspoon.

 

You are talking about a completely separate post. This one was about Liston being past prime when he fought for the title, nothing else.

 

Seems to me Liston does not have a fan in you.

 

Oh sorry about that. If you put it like that.

If 100% represents full prime, for Liston this would be 1960, I am happy for that. From the end of that year until the fight with Patterson Sonny was unbeaten and practically never took another punch in retaliation from anybody in very short fight with Westphal. So where is the deterioration before he fights Floyd?

I suggest Sonny went soft from having things his own way by the time of the Clay fight but certainly from nothing in the way of ring wear what so ever. A few regular fights would bring him back to that level surely. But you are talking about before this, by 1962! Sonny of 1962 cannot be far from 1960.

When Sonny turned pro he was active for just two years and three months. Sonny was then out of the ring almost as long as he had been active, just two months shy of the next two whole years out of the ring.

In 1958 Sonny restarted his career practically from scratch, all over again. He then cracks the ratings in 1959. 1960 he scores great wins. 1961 he's in limbo fights only unrated guys Westphal and king just 4 rounds of action. 1962 wins the title. Where is the decline???

 

Ya think? hahahahaha

 

Good thread.

 

I have said a lot of nice things about Liston on this thread.

"Liston was an extremely composed guy. A hunter. Great jab that was actually an offensive jab but he also had a great punch selection inside." -Remember that?

I stand by My statement that Tyson is only a slim favourite that if Liston can first survive a beating from Tyson he can give Mike something to think about and win this fight!

I dont dislike The Big Cat himself either, all I dislike is his being boosted to ATG level and comparable to fighters with better wins than Williams ever had. I see the Cat as a poor man's Razor Rudock without any of the wins he had. A kind of relaunched and relaunched eternal prospect who's career spanned Marciano, Patterson, Liston, Ali and Frazier!!

 

I haven't seen anyone boost Williams to ATG status.

 

There's been quite a lot of it going about.. check this out:

This was the kind of thing... Big Cat Williams does not have the winning credentials to warrant this kind of boosting.

 

Beating Cooney and Smith,which I think he would do, would not make Williams an ATG and I repeat no one has suggested he was one.

 

why should Big Cat beat James Bonecrusher Smith? Based on what? Smith knocked out Weaver, Bruno and Witherspoon. Who did big Cat knock out with a rating? Do you really think just because The Cat beat billy Daniels on points he kills Gerry C00ney?

Well look at this for more Big Cat Boosting:

Who hits harder than who is often open for debate but it's clear Liston proved to be a more efficient puncher at the top leve than Williams. I dont think this can be disputed since Sonny knocked out winning world class fighters and Williams did not.

Sonny and Big Cat both fought Frankie Daniels. Liston proved to deal with the same man in a more efficient way.

 

I never said Williams kills Cooney, I said I think he beats him,I think he beats Smith because he was quicker,and a better boxer.Smith 's win over Witherspoon was an anomaly ,Witherspoon didn't really turn up.I'd pick Williams to ko Bruno and Weaver. Liston and Terrell both said Williams was a monster puncher, he hasn't that many names on his resume for a very good reason, not many wanted to fight him.

.I think you're spinning this so much you're in danger of screwing yourself into the floor and as such I'm not really inclined to continue with it.

 

I'm sure big Cat was a monster puncher ...up to a level. He could not get the better fighters with the right leverage though could he?

not many wanted to fight him?
Big Cat got to fight Satterfeild. He got to fight Liston. He got to fight Ali. All that came from those fights was Williams got knocked down a lot of times.

When they were rated Williams fought Machen, he fought Terrell, he fought Chuvalo. He did not get a win out of any of those fights.

He beat Miteff and Billy Daniels (and the younger, inconsistent Terrell before he found his mojo)

Who wouldn't fight him? And what win earned Big Cat a fight with who ever would not fight him?

He wasn't rated until Liston was champion. Liston already beat him so he fought the next champion who beat him too.

I know Williams got shot but hey! Who was he going to beat before he git shot? He already blew the Machen fight and the Terrell rematch right when he needed convincing wins at world level. Williams landed those fights but did not deliver.

 

The experts knew Liston was going to destroy Ali.