But don't forget Ingo was unique too. Johansson Knocked out Machen in one round. and was the first man to knockout Patterson, not the second m an to knockout Patterson. Please read this article before writing Ingo off. It is a great and intelligent insight of one champion studying film of another. It is also pointed out that only the new eight count rule prevented Johansson from regaining the title in the third Patterson match Johansson states here that "I would Like to fight Liston" http://www.si.com/vault/1962/08/13/598006/ingemar-says-liston-is-too-slow This is true. But another way to look at it is that Sonny lost to the 7-1 underdog. Ali therefore certainly was not yet regarded as arguably the best heavyweight of all time. Sonny did Not clean out the division because he did not beat Johansson. In fact Ingo knocked out one more rated fighter before Winning the title than Sonny did. Ingo beat Machen, Cooper, Erskine and Franco Cavicchi. Ingo was rated for about four years before getting his title shot. Nobody says Ingo cleaned out anything.
Johansson was actually rated for less than three years before getting a title shot, and the reason no one says he cleaned out the division is that Cavicchi was a little-known fringe contender and Erskine and Cooper were unranked.
Johannson turned down $1000,000 to fight Liston. Uabanks and Sanders have both said they want to fight Golovkin do you believe them too? When was Cavicchi ranked? If he was it was only as a courtesy because of his briefly being Euro champion. Cooper had been stopped in his last 2 fights before meeting Johannson,he was not ranked, I don't think Erskine was in 1957 either. When was Cavicchi ranked? If he ever was, it could only have been as a courtesy because he briefly held the Euro title. Nobody talks about Ingo cleaning out anything because his resume at top level is very thin. Eubanks and Sanders have both said they want to fight Golovkin , do you believe them too? Ingo was offered $1000,000 to fight Liston and turned it down.
It isn't exactly a secret is it! Liston and the Big Cat can do no right but old Rocky," he would find a way"!
Why must you only see the bad in me? I have actually said some very nice things about Sonny on this very thread.
Ingo beat more rated fighters pre title? Where do you come up with this nonsense. That is not a fact. That is incorrect. I have the ring record book, I have the monthly issues. Cavvichi and Erskine were definitely not ranked top 10 at the time of the Johansson fight. Cooper I need to look up, but I don't believe he was top 10 either. Again I have to look it up. That leaves Machen, one man ranked top 10 prior to winning the title. In comparison, Liston defeated the following top 10 men pre title: Marty Marshall- top 10 light heavyweight in the world Eddie Machen - top 10 heavyweight in the world Zora Folley- top 10 heavyweight in the world Cleveland Williams rematch- rated 10th in the world for the rematch Roy Harris - top 10 heavyweight in the world Mike Dejohn- top 10 heavyweight in the world Wayne Bethea- top 10 heavyweight in the world snuck in at 9th in monthly issue My count 7 Liston 1 Johansson (maybe 2 if cooper checks out) Liston also beat many more fringe guys just outside the top 10 than Johansson did . Guys like cleveland Williams first time Nino Valdes Johnny Summerlin 2x Billy Hunter Willie Besmanoff Bert Whitehurst 2x Nobody says Ingo cleaned out anything because he didn't. He hid in Europe most of his career and refused to take on the top rated American challengers except for one. Liston took on everyone except Johansson who wanted no part of him.
I counted 9 punches but I think one missed....ouch, those punches were clean and hurtful. I met a guy in Denver who sparred with Liston. This guy was the strongest man I ever met and he said Liston hit so hard he wanted to cry.
thanks to mcvea here cheers "Just read an old article in a 91 Ko magazine,by Allen Ressler,its about Sonny Liston.He describes the Wayne Bethea fight ,and how Bethea had never been knocked of his feet in his previous 27 fights."Liston snapped three lefts to the face,feinted a left hook,and crossed a booming right to Bethea's chin.Bethea's whole body quivered for a moment then he sagged,and for the first time in his career dropped to the canvas.He took the mandatory 8 count before arising,bewildered and obviously awed by Liston's tremendous power,defensive specialist Bethea tried desperately to cover up.But the ferocious man bearing down on him crashed through his defence and dropped him again with another jolting right to the chin.It surprised the crowd ,and Liston too when Bethea again manged to beat the fatal 10 count,he was reeling helplessly around the ring,not knowing where he was,when referee Bernie Weissman wisely stopped the uneven match,just in time to prevent a cold blooded murder.A day or two later Bethea announced his retirement,and startled the public when he said"Liston knocked out 7 of my teeth with that first right he hit me with". George Gainford who had been with Robinson was Bert Whitehurst's manager ,he recalled the Liston fights."Whitehurst came back to the corner after the first round ,his nose was badly swollen,and he kept shaking his head as if he couldnt beleive it"Whats the matter? I asked him ,"" His Jab ,it's like a sledge hammer".Gainford on Liston's jab ." Joe Lous had the greatest Jab I ever saw he could knock you dead with it.I never dreamed I'd live to see another fighter jab as well as Joe.But I was wrong Liston packs the same kind of terrific power in his".Interestingly the writer says there were rumours that Liston carried Whitehurst in the second fight ,so as not to scare away future opponents"
Not a fighter....I don't want to post his name, but he had been a football player for Navy during the Joe Bellino years. Went into the Air Force and then retired after 20+ years in the late 1970's. He helped me move a big cottonwood tree once. He actually lifted the tree up in the air...with me hanging off it!
Yep. Except if you look closely at Batheas head, it looks like he may have been grazed with the 8th punch too. You can kind of see his head seemingly reacting to an impact, but it's hard to tell.
Thanks Frankie, I love hearing stories like that. Let us know if you ever feel comfortable in talking more about it.