Why was Marciano's era not strong?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by reznick, Nov 2, 2016.


  1. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    In the 30's you had Carnera, Max Baer, Louis, Schmeling, Sharkey, Braddock, Galento, Farr and a slew of giants.

    In the 60's you had Liston, Ali, Frazier, and some other good talent.

    Why do you guys think the HW division during Marciano's reign was devoid of great youthful talent? Yeah you had some really solid veteran talent, but compared to other eras in the 20th century, you don't see many great young guys.

    Is it possible that WWII took away the young guys who would've otherwise grown up in the boxing gyms?
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
  2. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Television had an impact. Before the war young men could learn their craft and pick up some pay fighting in small clubs. With television people were less inclined to go see local boxing, they stayed in and watched boxing on the box. The whole economy of boxing changed.
    Also, in America the G.I. Bill and a boom in prosperity might have had an impact.
    It probably wasn't just heavyweights, but heavyweights is usually where depth falls away first. Big guys who can box well are actually fairly rare.
     
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  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    I don't sew how your TV broadcasting point would affect the talent pool though?
    The boom in prosperity seems like a good point, until you remember all the talent in the division that came after.

    To me, the WWII theory makes the most sense so far. There was a draft between 1940 and 1947. Speaking of which, I wonder why Rocky wasn't drafted?
     
  4. Webbiano

    Webbiano Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Marciano, Charles, Moore, Walcott, Bivins, Layne, Ray, Valdez, Maxim, Lastarza ... Maybe a couple more that I'm missing. Maybe they are not viewed as strong due to the fact that in terms of size, they are dwarfed by the era that came afterwards and like you've already mentioned, a slew of big fighters that had previously appeared in the ring. Matchup this to the list you've provided and minus Louis, I don't see that much difference in the quality of fighters I've selected
     
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  5. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    In some 1950s magazines there is some articles about kids getting rushed and burnt out on TV. Two good heavyweight examples are Alex Miteff and Tommy Hurricane Jackson.

    I think with frozen titles of the war years a lot of careers were "preserved" and nobody could really touch the circuit of crafty veterans that somehow remained active whilst avoiding the draft.

    During the war, with no title to fight for a lot of talented older guys went on the road rematching each other over and over and they did not appear to have worn themselves down doing it.

    Once things opened up after the war with actual titles to aim for the older seasoned guys had an edge over the new kids being rushed on TV.
     
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  6. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Don't you think if we expand Louis' list to match the quality of Marciano opponents you listed, we would have to also include guys like Lewis, Ramage, Levinsky and Uzcudun?

    I do agree with you that Marciano's opponents don't get much credit, but a guy like Max Baer in that era, young and prime, would certainly shake things up at the top, and would add a different level of depth.
     
  7. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Marciano was drafted into the Army in March 1943.He was first stationed in Wales UK,then later he was ferrying supplies across the English channel to Normandy France.Marciano did not get back to the US
    ,[ Fort Lewis Washington,] until after Germany surrendered. Seems some of us do know a little bit about Marciano after all.
     
  8. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Rocky was drafted. He was stationed in Wales. Charles too.
    Moore, Walcott, Bivins, Elmer Ray, Valdes, Henry, Satterfeild, Turky and Baker did not appear to have been drafted.
     
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  9. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    The Rock was drafted into the Army in March 1943. He was stationed in Wales, and helped ferry supplies across the English
    Channel to Normandy. He got out in 1946.
     
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  10. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Ahhh. So he fought as an amateur while serving. No wonder he turned pro at 24. And didn't even know Goldman until after his pro career started. Wow
     
  11. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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  12. kingfisher3

    kingfisher3 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I agree
     
  13. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    The small fight club venues closed down due to television taking away the audience.
    If there's no local place for young upstarts to get fights they end up doing something else.

    You seem to be the only one who didn't know Marciano was drafted. He famously had a fight in a pub in Wales, so the legend goes, and was encouraged to take up boxing.

    Lots of men came out of the services (not just American, the rest of the world was involved) and became boxers.
    Yes, WW2 interrupted some careers and ruined some, and ended lives of course. But the armed forces often introduces men to boxing too.
     
  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    The fighters who developed a real seasoning in the clubs (before TV fights started to ruin youngsters) had the edge over the New kids.

    There was a demand to rush the next generation once the war was over. An example in the UK was Bruce Woodcock. Totally over scrutinized from the beginning and rushed, pushed and matched far too hard.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2016
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  15. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Do you really think this was enough to weed out potential greats? It is an interesting point, and I do see how it can have an effect, but why would the transition only affect Marciano's era?

    Perhaps the market for potential boxers needed time to adjust to newer models, but I can't imagine that this totally would weed great talent out.

    Does anyone think there is something to the draft from WWII? I wonder if there is any correlation to the draft, and the attendance of newcomers in boxing gyms. There has to be, right?