Pick a HW to beat Prime Tyson.

I would favor Ali.

 

Chewbacca was too skinny.

 

It would have to be a very seasoned, psychologically strong, driven winner of a champion at the top of his game to beat Tyson. One who could out think him, frustrate him and exploit the hot head within Tyson. It's a tall order.

 

The key to performing at top level starts with the trainer . Tyson did come back and look as sharp as ever against Carl Williams but thats bc he had a point to prove . Ithink Tyson dominance shows more how great he was vs how average he looked when things didn't go his way ,which under Rooney was never the case .

 

I dont really think there is one key thing. It's a bunch of key things. Trainers look great when their fighter is winning its as simple as that.

There are a lot of great trainers but every one of them have fighters leave them after a loss.

If the key thing was the right trainer why do so many great fighters leave their great trainer? It's easy for the fan of a fighter to blame the absence of the right trainer and its all so easy for the boxer himself to blame a loss on a trainer. So what is it?

The key thing is doing the best you can and having more than the other guy. Sometimes the other guy has more than you.

Sometimes one guy hits his mojo in a fight. Nobody looks as good losing as they do winning. You just can't win all the time.

 

A fighter is only as successful as he is trained ,exceptions would be Ali the non exception would be a Tyson bxc his style required more timing . The best fighters of a era have had the best trainers for a reason . Do you think Lewis and Wlad were coaching Manny Steward or the other way around since he revived both careers ?

Trainers are almost always as important as any thing ,without chemistry you dont have success or you have limited success .

 

After two Olympics and one world title do you think Lewis still needed to know how to throw a jab?

Manny was a great trainer. I met him. He reorganised everything Lewis already had and added to it. Elements of things he had already done. They worked on gameplans together. He altered Lewis's stance to allow for different types of punches. It helped Lewis continue to be effective as he got older.

The blue print for Tyson was mapped out by Cus and carried on with Atlas and Rooney. Working with a different trainer didn't make Tyson forget how to fight. You might argue he had other things to listen to but the foundation was already engrained into him.

Ideally keeping a winning formulae together is best but I think this business of Tyson needing to stay with Rooney in order to recapture a prime used to get over used. I remember when Tyson was past his best and fans still used to say "if he just took Rooney back.."

 

How many Sugar Ray Robinson's did George Gainford produce?

 

Trainers dont produce fighters they take ability and work around skill and abilities . You are simply down playing importance of trainer role ,the thread is about Tyson not SRR or who trained him ,without Cus Damato there is simply no Tyson . Working with different trainers was his down fall ,as only Rooney knew the exact system and communication to train him. We would have seen either the same 80's Tyson under Rooney in the 90's or improved Tyson as he got more fights certainly you cant imagine him losing to Douglas had Rooney been there?

 

That's just one reason.

If that really was the only reason Tyson never would have won a fight again. He was not good against Bonecrusher with Rooney or parts of the fight with Thomas.

Tyson won fights with worse prep than he got with Douglas. He claimed he was suffering from STD against Tucker.

If nothing else was wrong with Tyson and he had good camps and good sparring he would have been the same. Trouble is there was a lot if other things, as there often is.

Tyson did not want to lose in his fight with Douglas. You can see that.

Douglas needs more credit for stopping everything that worked for Tyson in other fights.

Nobody missed Rooney when Tyson blasted Williams out early.

 

Tyson did not win any real meaningful fights post prison, he won after Rooney because he was still stronger and faster than everyone,this was covered. any reasonable fan would see the differenace of Rooney trained Tyson and not rooney trained Tyson.

Trainers are not wizards the attributes still have to be there,what Cus saw ina minutes time looking at Tyson he said theres your next HW champion, so no....Tyson does not go on to out box those 80's guys without Cus to start the fire. He would get some k./os obviously ,but he does not look good doing so,he was very raw before Cus as obvious he was a kid.

Douglas was a very good fighter which shows how tough Tyson was,he had three nit wits in his corner and still almost won. the answer you didn't give was ,Tyson wins with Rooney this also should be no issue with any reasonable poster.

At the end of the day prime Tyson is not prime without Rooney, theres no evidence to suggest that because he never looked as good regardless of opponents,one can see this clearly.

 

Liston
Louis
Ali
Holyfield

 

Tyson won every single round against Tucker, how is that struggling?

 

Did you score ALL 12 rounds to Tyson ?