Who do you rate higher as an ATG and why? W Klitschko or E Holyfield

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by bailey, Oct 16, 2016.


  1. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    We are not talking about Bowe being in shape or not. This is what I mean when I say you dont pay attention.
    Also this silly comment of did I watch boxing then, when you know I was and you were possibly not even born.
    I pity the youth of today with you claiming to be teaching them
     
  2. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    I have found many times, he gets confused and doesnt read what is written. I have seen him call fights and then go back on it, then forward and then back again.
     
  3. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    I did.
    Lufc is really not the brightest
     
  4. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    He was pointing to the fact that you were only picking parts of the post that you wanted to read and missing out parts that didnt suit your reply.
    Tell me what you think were Bowes 3 biggest wins. I will give you a chance to try and find old footage of before you were born
     
  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,106
    20,713
    Sep 15, 2009
    I didn't chop the quote.

    You said it was arguably his biggest win, I disagree with you.

    I was born in 87 btw.

    His 3 biggest wins :lol: not sure he has a win list of impressive names that big.

    I'd probably say:

    Holy 1










    Holy 3







    Who cares
     
  6. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    So you disagree that I said Holyfield 3 was arguably Bowes biggest win
    See below

    "Amazingly Lufc doesnt view that as arguably Bowes biggest win in stopping Holyfield. It would be between that win and his first win IMO. I would probably guess that Lufc hasnt read the post properly"

    Your answer above is to say probably (which indicates it could be one or the other) Holyfield 1 or 3, so you think the stopping of Holyfield is arguably Bowes biggest win.
    I cant believe that you are a teacher. Thats a real worry for the youth of today.

    Well im sure being born in 87 that you were watching Bowe and Holyfield 1 as it unfolded
     
  7. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,106
    20,713
    Sep 15, 2009
    The post I originally quoted is on here, I need not comment further.

    It's one of his only notable wins, certainly not his biggest win, I don't think it's arguable hence my post.

    I don't teach HW boxing history.

    No I weren't.
     
  8. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    You wrote probably Holyfield 1, Holyfield 3 which could mean its debateable as to which. Which I feel it is. Stopping Holyfield is arguably Bowes biggest win. Even if you dont think it is, and I do think its debateable, Explain how you dont think it is arguable. This will be good.
    I know you dont teach boxing history
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,106
    20,713
    Sep 15, 2009
    No it doesn't mean I think it's debatable. I think those two are locked in place as 1 and 2. 3 could be a number of fights as his resume is weak.

    Because I think it is inherently clear that defeating a prime undefeated Holyfield in the form of his life, up close in a battle that no one expected him to prevail is better than beating a comeback Holyfield who had heart troubles.

    Not to mention that the condition of the two fighters left a whole lot to be desired.

    People expected Bowe to attack Holy from range but he met him in the pocket and traded with him, beating Holy at his own game. This was a battle between two prime hungry fighters.

    By the trilogy Bowe was very out of shape and Holy was suffering from a heart issue and had been beaten in a less than stellar showing against Moorer.

    On paper it might look better to have a stoppage win than a points win, but if you look at the circumstances surrounding both fights I do think it's beyond doubt that the first fight was his biggest and best performance.
     
  10. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    As we know, you were ot watching boxing back then and Holyfield wasnt coming back with heart troubles. He had been out of the ring for over a year after that fight with Moorer and came back and fought a sensational battle looking impressive against Mercer. In fact it was noted just how impressive Holyfield was, so stop trying to make out he was a faded fighter. He went on to twice beat Tyson and push L Lewis in a return
     
  11. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,106
    20,713
    Sep 15, 2009
    You obviously put more faith in the healing powers of a faith healer than I do.

    Holyfield was clearly faded. That is abundantly clear. He was not the man he was in the first fight. He had all sorts of health troubles and whilst he did have a good resurgence he was certainly past his best.

    You're the first poster I've spoken to who thinks the trilogy win is on the same level of the first win.


    I just don't see it.
     
  12. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    I wrote the win is arguable. Not better or worse but arguable. Pay attention.
    As for faded. That is a ridiculous comment and shows that you did not watch Holyfields comeback fight with Ray Mercer. As I noted you are too young to know. So you must also feel that after that he was faded when avenging the Moorer win, beating Tyson and pushing L Lewis.
    Answer this. If you feel Bowe was also out of shape, how do you think he was able to comeback from a bad knockdown and stop Holyfield when L Lewis couldnt on two ocassions put much of a dent in Holyfield
     
  13. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

    80,106
    20,713
    Sep 15, 2009
    I said I don't think it is arguable. Pay attention.

    Holy was a much reduced version of his prime self. That is beyond doubt. The reason he could beat a post prison Tyson and win 5 rounds against a prime Lewis is because he is a great talent.

    Bowe had good recovery powers. That is evident even in the 2nd round against Golota.

    Answer me this. What do you think is the best win of Bowe's career?
     
  14. bailey

    bailey Loyal Member Full Member

    39,877
    3,027
    Dec 11, 2009
    You say "don't think it is arguable" yet wote probably before. Think!
    So lets get this completely understood.

    - You werent watching boxing then and was a small child when these bouts were taking place. But feel Holyfield was faded and past prime in the space of 2 years and 2 because he was stopped by Bowe and was unwell when he fought Moorer a year and a half previously

    - You didnt watch Holyfields bout against Mercer after the Moorer fight where he was credited with such a good performance

    - You are implying that Holyfield being unwell against Moorer ended his best days and made him faded to what he was from there on in when




    He was then diagnosed as having a noncompliant left ventricle. Holyfield retired as a result. [4] A couple of months later, Holyfield said he had been cured by evangelist Benny Hinn. [5] Holyfield went to the Mayo Clinic and was given a clean bill of health. He was told the heart condition appeared because he was over-medicated and over-hydrated in the treatment he received after the Moorer fight. [6] Years later, Dr. Margaret Goodman, former chairman of the medical advisory board of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, said the medical arm of the commission questioned Holyfield about possible HGH use. "There were questions [because] the abnormalities Evander had with his heart were findings that could have been consistent with growth hormone use," she said. "The problem was there was no test and Evander denied any use of growth hormone." [7]

    http://boxrec.com/media/index.php?title=Fight:8271



    Point is nothing you have said is beyond doubt. Quite the opposite if you had of watched the Mercer fight after the Moorer fight
     
    kriszhao likes this.
  15. Blackclouds

    Blackclouds Boxing Junkie Full Member

    8,545
    1,508
    Nov 9, 2013
    Holyfield had a shoulder injury for the first Moorer fight and it's quite apparent when watching something was wrong.