Ruben Olivares Discussion

Thanks scar! I didn't realize that. Makes me love him even more! As I'd posted, my late bud and I thought he could take Rueben; in those days, you often didn't hear about upcoming bouts. In early 72, I picked up the morning paper and, on page four, was a write up, with photos. Herrera being hoisted on everyone's shoulders with a Sombrero on blowing kisses to the crowd with Reuben belly down with a face covered with blood. Called my bud immediately saying: "did you see the sports section this morning?"
Thank you for the insight!!

 

Man, good memories. You're right, back then we didn't even know when these fights were coming up and would have to wait a couple of months to see anything detailed in Ring, BI or World and International Boxing. And lets not forget that today you wouldn't see the results on page 4, 5 or 6 or anywhere else in the paper. How times have changed.

 

You could decently argue that, yes.

 

In addition to being a tremendous offensive machine, Carlos Zarate was more focused and came into the ring in good condition on a consistent basis compared to Ruben Olivares. But Olivares was a much more versatile fighter than Zarate.
A well-conditioned Olivares could match up at least decently with any fighter close to his weight during his prime years. But Zarate was absolutely demolished and exposed by Wilfredo Gomez. Yes, Gomez was a truly great fighter, but I think that Olivares in good condition and at his peak would have coped much better with Gomez than Zarate did.

- Chuck Johnston

 

Anybody remember the Saturday nite fights from Mexico? Saw a young Olivares fight Julio Guerrero. Guerrero is listed as 7-1 by boxrec, which is wrong, IDK what his record was but he had more fights then that. The fight was considered a threat to both something like the Zarate - Zamora fight. In those days what great fights they had on that series from Mexico. First time I saw Rafael Herrera was vs a puncher from Chicago Ronnie Jones, Herrera destroyed him in 2rds. In those days the fights from Mexico were fantastic cos the great array of talent displayed on those fights. You looked forward to those fights eventhough you never knew who you might see that week.

 

Mornin' jowcol!! I remember seeing that photo in the morning paper back in March 1972...Ruben on his belly looking up with blood pouring...I was shocked!! I finally read a great in depth call of that fight in Boxing Illustrated a month or so later...written by Don Majeski (I believe)...a great article...and I sure wish that there was an archive of those old BI articles....this one was so good, it was almost as though I had watched it on You Tube. The article cites how Olivares,...before the bell, his long, wild black hair like "Medusa"....and Herrera, with slicked down hair, resembled a silent era actor....and how he systematically beat down Olivares...being patient, wanting to be "like a matador, not allowing a missed kill" of his gored opponent, instead, waiting for the precise right time, which resulted in that impressive 8th round ko. Herrera fascinated me in this fight, and I was profoundly disappointed in that Rafael lost his crown in his very first defence against the speedy and tricky Enrique Pinder (talk about a truly forgotten champion)...but he did get a measure of redemption in regaining a portion of the bantam crown, before getting screwed in that rematch with Martinez.

 

Hi Red! Pinder was a monster. As I'd said, my bud and I saw Herrera-Castillo and those triple left hooks from Herrera! We knew he had the 'tools to best Rueben.

 

jowcol, the bantam division back then fascinated me...you had in quick succession, Castillo, Olivares, Herrera, Pinder, Anaya, Taylor, Hong, Zamora, Zarate, Lujan, Solis, Chandler, Sandoval, Canizales....and I had to look up on Boxrec to find out who Gaby's conqueror was....the previous 14 I have been able to recite since back then. It was a Golden Age that spanned nearly two decades...

 

Not 1 that can be made by any sane or sober person.

An absolute beast @118, combining Tyson-esque firepower & ferocity w/ some Holyfield-esque versatility & resilience. His blowouts of Rose & Rudkin are among the most impressive wins ever scored by anyone under 118.

His 1st loss came after 60ish fights & under flukey circumstances when his head was split open by a butt in the very 1st round & blood impaired his vision thru 14 rnds before the fight was finally stopped (nowadays, that fight would likely be halted straightaway & ruled a NC).

IMO, his decline began in his last couple defenses as he showed increasing wear & tear from nearly 70 fights & the effects of increasing struggles to make weight, then he bottomed out in his title loss to Herrera, in which he looked like a spent shell of himself. Although he found new life as a FW, he would always seem naturally small-ish for the weight & never regained the same level of consistency & dominance that he displayed early in his BW career.

Although I don't think there's a clear or consensus candidate for #1 all-time BW, Olivares is the most deserving choice for that spot IMO.

 

Hi Buddy.
Agree with all your assertions, with regards to " clear / consensus " the way I see it there is only 2 weight classes where that might not apply , they being Flyweight and Light heavyweight, the HWs its either Ali or Louis , MWs you have Greb, Monzon, SRR, Hagler. Welterweights it's both Leonards, Armstrong, Walker ? at Lightweight , Leonard, Gans, or Duran, Featherweight , Pep, Saddler, Sanchez ? Bantamweights its , Jofre, Olivares, Ortiz, or Zarate ? but when it comes to Fly I only see Wilde, and at LHW, i only see Charles, albeit he wasn't a champion at the weight, would you concur ?
I would value your opinions and thoughts, as I do your posts which are constituently with the upper echelons of discussions.
stay safe bolo, chat soon buddy.