Foreman vs Frazier 1...Different outcome??

Yet you stick up for the collection of bums Holmes faced when on the way down LOLOLOL

1000's have had title shots without having to best the division, get over it. Foreman cleaned his clock.

 

They still could have fought by all means. At the end of the day who gives a rats? Boxing history is much richer for this devastating performance, one of the greatest ever.

Credit to Joe too, taking his lumps like a true champion and even heartily chasing a rematch.

A credit to both warriors.

 

He was never ever gonna beat Foreman.

 

Holmes never fought anyone like Murphy Gordwin, Clarence Boone and Terry Sorell did he? I dont think anyone did. Comparing those guys to the state of boxing politics in the second half of Larry's reign is mind blowing. I concede the second part of Larry's reign should have been better but defending against Bey when he did is as acceptable as any other long serving champion at any point. The view I have, and stand by, us that Smith, Bey and Williams proved to be as good as any number of the alternative belt holders. Tate was a belt holder for God's sake! Any contender was as good as a belt holder back then, even Marvis Frazier! That's why they kept losing.

 

David Bey was coming off a win over Greg Page, turned down the opportunity to fight Coetzee in South Africa. Page took his place and won the WBA title. Bey was ranked among the top 5 at the time. Bey was a good opponent for Holmes, yes.

 

Frazier could not have done much else against Foreman.
Maybe a couple of years earlier he might have, but his style of fighting would always play into Foreman's hands.

 

Your post stating Foreman should not have got a shot is absurd.

 

Frazier was pretty doomed against Foreman. George had all the answers.

In a recent fight even Ted Gullick landed a lot more punches on George than Frazier managed, and there really was no reason why that should have been the case unless Joe had not have declined a lot since the win over Ali.

I am of the opinion that Frazier had lost one range to his game. It meant George only had to draw a line across the floor and know Joe could not touch him from that point. He even shoved him back when he moved inside that line, as if to put him on the side where he could not reach him.

In 1971, Frazier was beating 82" reach Muhammad Ali to the draw and landing from a longer range than he could in 1973.

 

I'm not saying George should not have got a shot, I'm saying he should not have been #1 ahead of Ali.

He was very lucky not to have fought an elimination match with Ali. Often to afford the kind of outstanding contender status (like he had) that kind of fight was required.

 

Not at all. The majority of defenses are against non #1's. No luck whatsoever.

 

To make it to the mandatory #1 position by 1973...you think George's 1972 form maintained that position? That's rediculous. He should have dropped down the ranks if anything.

Ali fought Mac Foster, Chuvalo, Patterson, Blue Lewis in 1972 alone. In the months after losing to Frazier Ali beat Ellis and Mathis!! Compare that with Foremans previous six opponents before his 1973 shot!

The last six guys Foreman fought before Frazier had over 80 defeats between them, with some not winning fights since 1950s. Every one of them unrated.

 

Great point! Ali vs Foreman may well have been different had Ali faced a hungry George, not an over confident George. A comparison comes to mind. I remember reading that Quarry was going to fight Patterson for the first time. My immediate thoughts at the time were that the young inexperienced Quarry had very little chance at that time against the former heavyweight champion of the world. However, the title of an article after the fight read, "Patterson and Quarry fight to a draw. Patterson finds Quarry "hungry."

 

Can anyone in here REALLY think that we could POSSIBLY have heard Howard Cosell yelling
"Down goes Foreman! Down goes Foreman! Down goes Foreman"?

Right....I didn't think so.

 

IMO if George had not pushed Joe away often, the bombs would still have landed eventually. And as I've said numerous times, the 70's Ali, in retrospect, dictated his own course. Never would have given Foreman a rematch given chokelab's post, unless it was in Zaire or another planned venue. He didn't anyway. Ali was the #1 heavy of all time (as I've said) because we never saw his 67-70 prime. If you want to say George should have went thru Ali before Frazier in 72? That wasn't going to happen. Firstly, Ali had his 'agenda' set up even then and lastly why did the Foreman-Ali fight take place in Zaire of all places? Ali's pull and influence. Their 74 s c r a p should have been in the Astrodome. George was the Champ at the time; now, if Ali had come back from Oct 70 Quarry and beyond, and kicked major b u t t, one could argue a more compelling case for a different venue then the Astrodome but...he pounded Frazier in the FOTC but got clocked himself more than once and lost to Norton. Many of us never realized (including myself) that he wouldn't continue to be Superman upon his return. I'm rambling; in closing, like another poster said, a 72 Ali-Foreman was just not going to happen, an "apples and oranges" sort of thing. My $0.02